What size tip would you recommend for a C or D player? Will it really make a difference when learning stun and draw shots?
What size tip for a C or D player
- Thread starter I Got Lucky
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Whatever their cue has. You're asking a preference question about pool players that are still learning the game. No, it will not make a difference when learning stun and draw shots.
Beginners may think that a small diameter tip helps, but it doesn't for a beginner.
I started with an 11.75 so that's what I'm used to. I always recommend 13mm as you don't have to be as accurate when striking the cb. The smaller the tip the more precise you have to be with where you are striking the cb as to not apply undesired english. You will really notice a difference on long shots, just the slightest left or right can throw off your shot pretty easy.
Well what I meant was if a C or D player was going to purchase their first good cue and had a choice of ferrules, what size would be good.
Production cue or custom?
Most production cues are either 11.75mm, 12.75mm, or 13mm. I'd recommend the latter.
With a custom cue, the choices are endless.
I don't think most D players would know the difference between aegis and saber-t.
I think a new player would find a smaller shaft a big odd feeling if they are used to playing with house cues. I'd stick with 12.5-13 mm.
The biggest issue is what type of shaft to get standard or any of the 20 different low deflection ones.
Anything between 11.5 to 13.5 mm. For a C-D player (i.e. learning the game) the size of the tip is so low down on the priority list that it just doesn't make a difference. As long as the cue is reasonably straight and the tip is in good condition, you're good to go.
IMHO, you should be considering a LD shaft and from my own evaluation, I highly recommend OB. I personally prefer the OB2+ which is 11.75 mm. They also offer 12.75 mm and I believe they have a "fat" shaft as well. You should try to hit a few shots with the different sizes to determine what you prefer, that is the only thing of importance.
OB also makes a nice, forward balanced cue as well for very reasonable prices.
OB also makes a nice, forward balanced cue as well for very reasonable prices.
New2,
Here's my take & I'll relate it to golf.
If you want to play your best NOW use forgiving cavity back irons (large diameter tip).
If you don't mind your game suffering a bit NOW but want to learn from your mistakes then use blade irons (smaller diameter tip).
Those are general statements as was your question. As one becomes more proficient many like going to a smaller diameter tip.
Most house cues have larger 13mm diameter tips. The reason is that most of those using them are usually not very proficient & the hall owner wants them to have as much success & fun as they can so that they will return & spend to play again..
I hope this helps.
Best Wishes,
Rick
Here's my take & I'll relate it to golf.
If you want to play your best NOW use forgiving cavity back irons (large diameter tip).
If you don't mind your game suffering a bit NOW but want to learn from your mistakes then use blade irons (smaller diameter tip).
Those are general statements as was your question. As one becomes more proficient many like going to a smaller diameter tip.
Most house cues have larger 13mm diameter tips. The reason is that most of those using them are usually not very proficient & the hall owner wants them to have as much success & fun as they can so that they will return & spend to play again..
I hope this helps.
Best Wishes,
Rick
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What size tip for a C or a D player
As many have mentioned, it doesn't , really matter at those skill levels. Most cues are made with a 13mm tip and many very good players use that size, it is more forgiving. I suggest you stay away from any size below 12.5mm. They are not forgiving.
I suggest to my students to try out a 12.75mm, it is close to 13mm, still forgiving and if you decide later to go with a LD Shaft (low deflection) most are made, like an OB 1+, in 12.75mm. you won't have to adjust to a different feeling due to size.
If you haven't already, find a qualified instructor in your area and get your fundamentals down "solid". Proper stance, grip, chalk, bridges, and proper cue & tip maintenance will develop what you need most ... a good stroke.
Keep on Stroking ... Straight !!
As many have mentioned, it doesn't , really matter at those skill levels. Most cues are made with a 13mm tip and many very good players use that size, it is more forgiving. I suggest you stay away from any size below 12.5mm. They are not forgiving.
I suggest to my students to try out a 12.75mm, it is close to 13mm, still forgiving and if you decide later to go with a LD Shaft (low deflection) most are made, like an OB 1+, in 12.75mm. you won't have to adjust to a different feeling due to size.
If you haven't already, find a qualified instructor in your area and get your fundamentals down "solid". Proper stance, grip, chalk, bridges, and proper cue & tip maintenance will develop what you need most ... a good stroke.
Keep on Stroking ... Straight !!
To imply that the contact 'patch' (approx. 3mm give or take a bit depending on some factors) is the same for all different size tips & hardness of tips & radius of tips would be misleading.
A pro tapered 11mm tip shaft will squirt the cue ball less than a pro tapered 13mm tip shaft given that the contact on the cue ball is the same offset amount from the vertical axis. That is due to the lighter front end of the shaft.
AND for the same contact point to be made the center line of the 13mm shaft can be moved more off line than that of the 11mm shaft, depending on the radius of the tips which could put the center of gravity or weight of the cue on a different vector to the cue ball.
So now, what radius tip should a novice use? Flat, quarter, nickle, dime?
All of these things come into play.
Yes, I guess it could be said that the choice is personal preference as each person is going to make their choice. But to imply that there are no differences would be misleading IMO.
A pro tapered 11mm tip shaft will squirt the cue ball less than a pro tapered 13mm tip shaft given that the contact on the cue ball is the same offset amount from the vertical axis. That is due to the lighter front end of the shaft.
AND for the same contact point to be made the center line of the 13mm shaft can be moved more off line than that of the 11mm shaft, depending on the radius of the tips which could put the center of gravity or weight of the cue on a different vector to the cue ball.
So now, what radius tip should a novice use? Flat, quarter, nickle, dime?
All of these things come into play.
Yes, I guess it could be said that the choice is personal preference as each person is going to make their choice. But to imply that there are no differences would be misleading IMO.
Okay with all the different answers I'm curious now. Was my first post correct about a 13mm being more forgiving than say an 11.75? I've not been around the game nearly as long as a lot of people here and if I have incorrect information I would like to know so I don't pass on bad information. I brought in 3 new players this year and they have all shot before at the bar and what not but none had their own cues. I advised them that their best bet would probably be going with a 13mm tip over one of the smaller ones and I hope I didn't give them bad info.
Dockter,
If you read my post above I think you might realize that it is not quite such an easy question to answer & to me it basically depends on whether one is trying to stay hitting the center vertical axis line of the cue ball (which is rather difficult to do repeatedly without at least being a bit off from time to time) or if one utilizes english by hitting offset from that line.
In either case, if one is going to spend any money on a cue, I would suggest getting one with a 'low deflection' shaft as that might be the best improvement for a less skilled player. Even if that means buying a used cue to stay on an economical budget.
But in general I would agree that a 13mm tip or a 12.75 is better for one that might not have a good accurate stroke. But I'd rather it be a 'low deflection' version over a more traditional solid maple. If one is going to stay with the traditional solid maple then one might be better served by a smaller diameter like 12 or even the 11.75.
I hope this helps more than confuses.
Best Wishes,
Rick
Helps a ton, thanks! I actually just got my first LD shaft and have only got to put about 15 games on it so far. I was making my long shots with more ease than I have been lately but I don't know if that's the shaft or me thinking I'm going to do great with my new toy.
I've only really got serious about pool in the last couple years. I've shot for 12 now in leagues but it was more just a way to hang out with my grandpa on league nights and hang out with friends. The last couple years I've been trying to improve my game and bring new players in. In the last 2 years I've brought 6 bar shooters into league and they are loving it and I'm having fun helping where I can although I'm in no way a coach or a great player.Shaft thickness and taper may be personal preference, but more advanced players may have forgotten what it was like to be a new player.
A thicker shaft will let you get away with some stroke and bridge errors that a thin shaft will expose.
I'm a C/C+ player. Myself and others I play with run into the same issue. Some prefer the thinner shaft, but they admit it is not as forgiving. Especially on 9 foot tight pocket tables.
We can discuss contact patch size, but we are not robots with perfect strokes and perfect bridges. A thin shaft in the hands of a beginner is less forgiving. I have to actively squeeze my bridge tighter with the thinner shaft to prevent shaft movement. This might be automatic for advanced players, but beginners and intermediates have to think about it and all the other stuff that invades a new players mind.
I agree with English and would stay away from shafts thinner than 12.75 for now.
A thicker shaft will let you get away with some stroke and bridge errors that a thin shaft will expose.
I'm a C/C+ player. Myself and others I play with run into the same issue. Some prefer the thinner shaft, but they admit it is not as forgiving. Especially on 9 foot tight pocket tables.
We can discuss contact patch size, but we are not robots with perfect strokes and perfect bridges. A thin shaft in the hands of a beginner is less forgiving. I have to actively squeeze my bridge tighter with the thinner shaft to prevent shaft movement. This might be automatic for advanced players, but beginners and intermediates have to think about it and all the other stuff that invades a new players mind.
I agree with English and would stay away from shafts thinner than 12.75 for now.
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You were right to tell them 13mm.
However, the most important thing is that they buy a good-hitting, quality cue instead of buying on "looks." The tip size and fanciness don't make any difference if the cue warps after three months.
I would also have them experience a wrapless vs. wrapped cue. For my first cue I bought one with a linen wrap because I figured "with must be better than without, right?" Wrong. I found out that linen wraps slip around in my hand; I didn't realize it until I left my cue at home one day and had to shoot with a house cue. It was kind of embarassing to admit that it felt much better and that I'd made a rookie mistake.
The other easy comparison for them is a hard tip vs. a soft tip (or stiff hit vs. soft hit). Tell them there is no right answer...just the one that feels better to them. It's usually pretty easy to find two cues -- one hard, one soft -- at the pool hall for them to try.
However, the most important thing is that they buy a good-hitting, quality cue instead of buying on "looks." The tip size and fanciness don't make any difference if the cue warps after three months.
I would also have them experience a wrapless vs. wrapped cue. For my first cue I bought one with a linen wrap because I figured "with must be better than without, right?" Wrong. I found out that linen wraps slip around in my hand; I didn't realize it until I left my cue at home one day and had to shoot with a house cue. It was kind of embarassing to admit that it felt much better and that I'd made a rookie mistake.
The other easy comparison for them is a hard tip vs. a soft tip (or stiff hit vs. soft hit). Tell them there is no right answer...just the one that feels better to them. It's usually pretty easy to find two cues -- one hard, one soft -- at the pool hall for them to try.
I'll say again, doesn't make a difference. We are talking about a C or D player. Deflection doesn't even come into the picture because he has to learn what his new cue is going to do anyways. As far as the smaller being too loose in the bridge, that's just part of learning how to make a proper bridge, Whichever you get used to is what you will later tend to prefer.
This is false unless we're talking about miscuing. If the radius of the tip is the same, there is no difference except the smaller diameter will get to the point of miscue earlier. So while that does mean you have to be more accurate to avoid a miscue, I don't think that is what is commonly meant when people say a larger diameter shaft is more forgiving. A flatter radius will be more forgiving, but shaft diameter does not factor in until you get so far off as to miscue with the skinnier shaft.
With that being said, it's really just preference.