Pool's "Best Practices"

Patrick Johnson

Fargo 1000 on VP4
Silver Member
The idea of "Best Practices" is that there's a "standard" way to do some things that tends to give the best results, and that we should only deviate from that way when there's a compelling reason. This doesn't mean there's only one right way for everybody - a person's psychology or physiology may make a non-standard way of doing something better for them. But non-standard ways are non-standard because they usually have some drawbacks, and it's important to recognize the drawbacks and weigh them against the advantages for you.

A common example of this is the Best Practice called a "pendulum stroke". A "pendulum stroke" is considered a Best Practice for a few reasons:
1. it's the easiest way to ensure a straight and level stroke at contact
2. it's the easiest way to ensure correct stroke speed at contact
3. it's the easiest way to be consistent

The important drawback for a non-standard stroke such as a "piston stroke" is that it's a more complex movement involving more body parts and so is inherently more difficult to control precisely. With lots of practice you can probably learn to control it pretty precisely, but not as easily (and maybe not as precisely either).

Best Practices also teach important principles that non-standard practices don't - such as the importance of minimizing movement.

For most players, and particularly for newer players, the pendulum stroke and other Best Practices are the best way to start even though they may not be how everybody ends up. "It's all personal preference" is usually bad advice and we do developing players a disservice with it.

pj
chgo
 
Just labeling something as a Best Practice doesn't make it so.

The pendulum stroke may very well be the best way to go but I don't believe that has been proven at this point. Even going so far as calling it the "orthodox stroke" as Mark Wilson has labeled it doesn't make it the best way to go. The fact that the vast majority of top level pool players do not use this type of stroke keeps me open minded on the subject.

In other words, I think you've made 3 assertions that aren't so easy to prove.
 
...the vast majority of top level pool players do not use [a pendulum] stroke

...I think you've made 3 assertions that aren't so easy to prove.
They stand to reason and haven't been disproved.

Speaking of easy to prove, how about some support for the "vast majority" claim?

pj
chgo
 
Actual I beat on PJ pretty hard and I will never use an orthodox pendulum stroke but as a "Best Practice" I tend to think of something that is a cornerstone to build on.... With that said I will agree that the pendulum is a "Best Practice" even if his 3 reasons are subjective to others.... I will even add to it these 2 which are also subjective...

The easiest to teach...
The fewest moving parts...

If I had a beginner I would likely try and teach them the pendulum as a base... They will evolve on their own... And if they fall into a slump they can go back to the cornerstone and hash out where the evolution went astray....
 
Best practice? Not listening to Patrick Johnson for starters...

I have learned two things off Patrick that made sense..I think I knew them instinctively...
....but when he stated them, I heard 'bingo'....
...knowing them with the front of your mind makes them more possible to find on a bad day.

NOW....what have you contributed?
 
All bodies are NOT equal...especially as they age. Bursitus in my right shoulder forces me to adapt...still, I soldier on.
 
Just saying something stands to reason doesn't make it so.

pj
chgo

It doesn't, but you can try listing any top pool players that you think use a pendulum stroke and it will be an easy effort to find video on youtube of them not using a pendulum stroke. As it is, I have never seen any top pros employ a pendulum stroke full time, or even most of time.
 
If you just look at that the action, the motion the cue does during a stroke......they are all piston strokes. The cue action, motion is the same as a piston going back and forth. Cue tip is the piston, the cue is the piston rod and the hand is the piston rod big end.

Now the action of arm movement is another thing. It is more about style then anything else.

A "pendulum" stroke produces a piston action on the cue.

A "elbow drop" stroke produces a piston action on the cue.

And so on.

It is the action, motion, of the cue that is more important than what the arm action, motion look likes.
 
OH yeah, the best practice is to do whatever works for you regardless what anyone states is the best practice.
 
"It's all personal preference" is usually bad advice and we do developing players a disservice with it.
It's one of the worst attitudes in pool, and probably plays a big part in holding back American pool. We're such a bunch of individualist narcissists that no one can teach us anything, and if anyone suggests your best-practices approach, they're ridiculed.

Can you imagine golf and tennis and other sports having a widespread attitude that "everyone's different," and "there is no right or wrong."
 
I have learned two things off Patrick that made sense..I think I knew them instinctively...
....but when he stated them, I heard 'bingo'....
...knowing them with the front of your mind makes them more possible to find on a bad day.

NOW....what have you contributed?

Stopped people being led astray by people who cannot play?

Anyway, that's the first negative thing you've ever said about anyone, ever. I knew I could do it. :)
 
This thread has already become a perfect case-study as to why AZB has gone to $hit.

No one is willing to give an inch, everyone wants to argue even the most basic of premises...

PJ clearly stated that any particular technique (or anything else described as a best practice) may very well not be the best for everyone, but for the majority.

Is the sky usually blue? Does the sun come up in the east for most of us?

This place exists merely to amuse those who wish to argue nowadays. Very sad.
 
Stopped people being led astray by people who cannot play?

Anyway, that's the first negative thing you've ever said about anyone, ever. I knew I could do it. :)

I guess you haven't read any of my posts about Geotge Zimmerman...:angry:
 
This thread has already become a perfect case-study as to why AZB has gone to $hit.

No one is willing to give an inch, everyone wants to argue even the most basic of premises...

PJ clearly stated that any particular technique (or anything else described as a best practice) may very well not be the best for everyone, but for the majority.

Is the sky usually blue? Does the sun come up in the east for most of us?

This place exists merely to amuse those who wish to argue nowadays. Very sad.

I think arguing is a good thing....if you lose an argument, you gain something.
I've lost a few arguments on AZ, and I was rewarded with enlightenment....

...don't be thinking I'm a pushover, though....I've won a few.

I know what you mean though, J....some think reiterating is strengthening their argument.
 
The idea of "Best Practices" is that there's a "standard" way to do some things that tends to give the best results, and that we should only deviate from that way when there's a compelling reason. This doesn't mean there's only one right way for everybody - a person's psychology or physiology may make a non-standard way of doing something better for them. But non-standard ways are non-standard because they usually have some drawbacks, and it's important to recognize the drawbacks and weigh them against the advantages for you.

A common example of this is the Best Practice called a "pendulum stroke". A "pendulum stroke" is considered a Best Practice for a few reasons:
1. it's the easiest way to ensure a straight and level stroke at contact
2. it's the easiest way to ensure correct stroke speed at contact
3. it's the easiest way to be consistent

The important drawback for a non-standard stroke such as a "piston stroke" is that it's a more complex movement involving more body parts and so is inherently more difficult to control precisely. With lots of practice you can probably learn to control it pretty precisely, but not as easily (and maybe not as precisely either).

Best Practices also teach important principles that non-standard practices don't - such as the importance of minimizing movement.

For most players, and particularly for newer players, the pendulum stroke and other Best Practices are the best way to start even though they may not be how everybody ends up. "It's all personal preference" is usually bad advice and we do developing players a disservice with it.

pj
chgo

good thoughts stated well--as usual
 
It's one of the worst attitudes in pool, and probably plays a big part in holding back American pool. We're such a bunch of individualist narcissists that no one can teach us anything, and if anyone suggests your best-practices approach, they're ridiculed.

Can you imagine golf and tennis and other sports having a widespread attitude that "everyone's different," and "there is no right or wrong."

This thread has already become a perfect case-study as to why AZB has gone to $hit.

No one is willing to give an inch, everyone wants to argue even the most basic of premises...

PJ clearly stated that any particular technique (or anything else described as a best practice) may very well not be the best for everyone, but for the majority.

Is the sky usually blue? Does the sun come up in the east for most of us?

This place exists merely to amuse those who wish to argue nowadays. Very sad.

If these posts were directed at me I think they are both way off base.

I actually agree with PJ's concept of Best Practices but I'm just not completely sold on the pendulum stroke. It's really that simple.

I'm sort of with Renfro on this one. The pendulum may be a good starting point but there must be a reason most pros do not use it. I have a hard time believing their reason is just because they don't know any better.
 
Let's see, I too have or at least had bursitis in both shoulders, a broken clavicle on the bridge side, causing my shoulder to be an inch and a half closer to my neck than the stroke side, arthritis in both wrists and...I would like to thank PJ for all his insightful contributions. I strive for that pendulum stroke. I just don't have enough time left in my life to devote 8 hours a day for the next 8 years to perfect the ram shot.

I also use ghost ball/fractions aiming that I find simple and can understand,

So, that leads me to wonder if he's not being attacked here because he supports fractional aiming instead of the holy grail, CTE or one of it's variants.
 
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