Handicaps: spot a ball or give a headstart

jchance

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What are the most commonly used handicaps in the USA to give weight? Here in France, you don't often see people spotting someone the 8 or another ball - it's more likely to be giving a few racks start e.g. 3 headstart in a race to 9.

Would you rather give up a headstart of a few racks or let the opponent have an extra money ball to shoot at?

Just interested in getting people's views on what are the pros and cons to these and other handicap systems.

Thanks
 
Depends on the match-up. I try to give out handicaps to friends as often as i can. It gives a better feel for what they mean, also as to how to play them.
 
Depends on the match-up. I try to give out handicaps to friends as often as i can. It gives a better feel for what they mean, also as to how to play them.

In a money match race to 9, which puts more pressure on the player giving up weight? Spotting the 8 and playing off levels or giving a 2/3 rack headstart?
 
In my limited experience it depends on the skill difference of the two players. If they are close in skill games-on-the-wire works best.

But games-on-the-wire is useless when a run-out player is playing a novice (unless it's 8-on-the-wire in a race to 9, which is kind of silly). In 9-ball the novice player just isn't going to win a game unless the good player rattles the 9-ball in a pocket. But the novice has a fighting chance if he wins with a lowered number ball (how low depends on how novice).
 
What are the most commonly used handicaps in the USA to give weight? Here in France, you don't often see people spotting someone the 8 or another ball - it's more likely to be giving a few racks start e.g. 3 headstart in a race to 9.

Would you rather give up a headstart of a few racks or let the opponent have an extra money ball to shoot at?

Just interested in getting people's views on what are the pros and cons to these and other handicap systems.

Thanks
Can only speak for myself but I like giving games on the wire, it is more cut and dried and easy to understand. It doesn't mean anything to me, it just means I am behind a few game I don't feel any added pressure. Also, once I catch up it is usually over in the mind of the other player, he is now playing even. You can see him just fold.

Giving up balls anything can happen. You could go a whole set and they never come into play or they could be there every time the guy comes to the table.

Also if he is a smart player he may know how to use the extra balls to his advantage regarding safety play and so on.

I should add, it is also easier to adjust the set giving games on the wire. We can add a game or take one away, play a longer set and so on. It is harder to evaluate giving balls. The guy may in fact have a good game but the spot didn't show up and he wants out. He may play another set and win hardly but he doesn't feel it. With games on the wire you can look at the final score and you have something solid to work with in making another game. Just my opinion.
 
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What are the most commonly used handicaps in the USA to give weight? Here in France, you don't often see people spotting someone the 8 or another ball - it's more likely to be giving a few racks start e.g. 3 headstart in a race to 9.

Would you rather give up a headstart of a few racks or let the opponent have an extra money ball to shoot at?

Just interested in getting people's views on what are the pros and cons to these and other handicap systems.

Thanks

Pool likes to be different from other sports ( maybe that is why some say it is not a sport :) )
In other sports like football, they do not spot based on penalty kicks, corners , free kicks . They just go by giving balls. If strong team meets minnow then minnow gets 3 goals head start for eg.
Same with tennis. They will give points head start . They don't spot like serving near net, or serve from baseline etc

Head start should be universal method- it is straightforward , no confusion, easy to put into practice . It is also better gauge of relative skills of both sides :)
 
For a friendly game in which the goal is not about who wins but to give the weaker player more table time to practice (and neither is a run-out player) I might do one of the following:
1. Two (or more) shots per ball
2. One (or more) extra turn per game and it is to be decided when the player misses a ball
3. For one time during a rotation-like game, the weaker player can opt to shoot any (non-money) ball first prior to the lowest numbered ball.
 
Couldnt have said it better

There is no way I could say it any better.

Can only speak for myself but I like giving games on the wire, it is more cut and dried and easy to understand. It doesn't mean anything to me, it just means I am behind a few game I don't feel any added pressure. Also, once I catch up it is usually over in the mind of the other player, he is now playing even. You can see him just fold.

Giving up balls anything can happen. You could go a whole set and they never come into play or they could be there every time the guy comes to the table.

Also if he is a smart player he may know how to use the extra balls to his advantage regarding safety play and so on.

I should add, it is also easier to adjust the set giving games on the wire. We can add a game or take one away, play a longer set and so on. It is harder to evaluate giving balls. The guy may in fact have a good game but the spot didn't show up and he wants out. He may play another set and win hardly but he doesn't feel it. With games on the wire you can look at the final score and you have something solid to work with in making another game. Just my opinion.
 
Most players do not know how to win with a spot

Keeping the heat on the guy giving out the spot is the trick to winning.
That means constantly looking for ways to stick him up in a deadly safety when approaching your money ball in the rotation.
This means he has to be ultra careful because just about anyone, (even me), can run 2 balls from an open position.
Example: You're getting the wild 8. Stick him up when you get to the 6 or 7 and watch him start to sweat. This forces him into a runout status whenever he walks to the table. That's hard to fade (unless you're SVB or somebody similar) and they're not going to be playing you in the first place.
Most players do not know how to get the best of it when they get a spot because they feel(?) they 'just have to show they can run balls'. They play the game the same old way as if they were not getting a spot at all.
About an hour or two of studying and practicing this for fun will reveal how this can drive a spotter crazy.
Furthermore, if you can talk him into laying 8-5 on the money for each game, you'll bust him. Just do the arithmetic and see how that works for your advantage. The ego of some of the guys out there is something to behold. You'd be astonished at how many wise guys will jump on that one.
(Just some old tricks from a very old "grocery" player.)
 
Keeping the heat on the guy giving out the spot is the trick to winning.
That means constantly looking for ways to stick him up in a deadly safety when approaching your money ball in the rotation.
This means he has to be ultra careful because just about anyone, (even me), can run 2 balls from an open position.
Example: You're getting the wild 8. Stick him up when you get to the 6 or 7 and watch him start to sweat. This forces him into a runout status whenever he walks to the table. That's hard to fade (unless you're SVB or somebody similar) and they're not going to be playing you in the first place.
Most players do not know how to get the best of it when they get a spot because they feel(?) they 'just have to show they can run balls'. They play the game the same old way as if they were not getting a spot at all.
About an hour or two of studying and practicing this for fun will reveal how this can drive a spotter crazy.
Furthermore, if you can talk him into laying 8-5 on the money for each game, you'll bust him. Just do the arithmetic and see how that works for your advantage. The ego of some of the guys out there is something to behold. You'd be astonished at how many wise guys will jump on that one.
(Just some old tricks from a very old "grocery" player.)
You are completely correct but there is a catch-22 there. If the player was that clever he isn't getting such a big spot. You have to take into account if he knows the game.

He may not be such a great shooter for what ever reason, but if he knows the game his spot it going to have to take that into account. The player may not even know how big the spot he is getting is because he doesn't know what to do with it.

If I give someone the 7&8 wild, I really can't hardly miss or make any mistakes if the guy can play at all. If he safes me on the 5 and I don't hit it I lose. If I miss on the 5 and leave a shot, I lose. If I miss, get snookered, he plays me safe on pretty much anything past the 4 ball I probably lose. But if he doesn't know what to do I may win.

Jimmy Reid was in the pool room giving a guy a spot playing one pocket. The game was Jimmy could only run one ball and he had to play safe. The guy he was playing was not the worst player in the world but he was losing at the game. Someone watching from the side whispered something to the player.

What he told him to do was break the rack open and let Jimmy get his one ball. With the balls scattered and Jimmy not allowed to run more then one the player won easily. In fact Jimmy quit after losing one game.

I saw Buddy Hall playing a very weak player playing 9 ball giving him like 4 out. On night one the guy getting the spot lost. Night number two the guy had a plan. He began safe breaking the balls and going behind the rack with the cue ball.

They are playing like $500.00 a game by the way. After losing like 5 out of the first 6 games Hall quit. Here is the funny part. Hall told the guy he was not allowed to do it any more or he would not play. So the guy went back to open breaking and lost. A sucker is a sucker I guess.
 
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Personally ,
I prefer (giving) wire weight over ball weight. i thinks its tougher fading the extra pressure shooting at 2 or more must make "money " balls per game.
and on the same token id rather get ball weight then wire...more money to shoot at;).
 
You are completely correct but there is a catch-22 there. If the player was that clever he isn't getting such a big spot. You have to take into account if he knows the game.

He may not be such a great shooter for what ever reason, but if he knows the game his spot it going to have to take that into account. The player may not even know how big the spot he is getting is because he doesn't know what to do with it.

If I give someone the 7&8 wild, I really can't hardly miss or make any mistakes if the guy can play at all. If he safes me on the 5 and I don't hit it I lose. If I miss on the 5 and leave a shot, I lose. If I miss, get snookered, he plays me safe on pretty much anything past the 4 ball I probably lose. But if he doesn't know what to do I may win.

Jimmy Reid was in the pool room giving a guy a spot playing one pocket. The game was Jimmy could only run one ball and he had to play safe. The guy he was playing was not the worst player in the world but he was losing at the game. Someone watching from the side whispered something to the player.

What he told him to do was break the rack open and let Jimmy get his one ball. With the balls scattered and Jimmy not allowed to run more then one the player won easily. In fact Jimmy quit after losing one game.

I saw Buddy Hall playing a very weak player playing 9 ball giving him like 4 out. On night one the guy getting the spot lost. Night number two the guy had a plan. He began safe breaking the balls and going behind the rack with the cue ball.

They are playing like $500.00 a game by the way. After losing like 5 out of the first 6 games Hall quit. Here is the funny part. Hall told the guy he was not allowed to do it any more or he would not play. So the guy went back to open breaking and lost. A sucker is a sucker I guess.
I like your post.
This is what this forum needs more of instead of that incessant "let's beat up so-and-so" stuff.
Sounds like you got a few miles on you.
Regards,
Flash
 
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