after video-taping myself i found that i have a little side to side upper-arm movement on practice strokes & delivery which cause my stroke to finish offline.i've been having this problem for years now and have tried just about everything from changing different stances,grips,elbow positions,strokes,bridges etc but just can't fix the problem..3 years ago i suffered a shoulder dislocation from a fall & it took 3 hours until my shoulder was put back in its socket & my shoulder has always been a bit unstable ever since so the only explanation i can come up with for my stroke not being straight is that my shoulder is unstable from the dislocation & that's why my upper-arm moves a bit side to side when i play,i'm pretty much certain about it at this point..so my question is,can i do anything about it,is there some kind of shoulder brace i can buy to keep my upper arm stable?
shoulder dislocation & pool
- Thread starter z0nt0n3r
- Start date
I don't think you have enough posts to qualify for private messages yet so your attempts to send me messages aren't getting through. All I'm getting are notices but no messages.
If you want to ask me something privately, you can friend me on facebook and send me a message there.
Please note, though, that I don't give playing advice to anyone privately other than to my clients, so if it's about your game, your best bet is ask your question here and I'll weigh in along with the other posters.
If you want to ask me something privately, you can friend me on facebook and send me a message there.
Please note, though, that I don't give playing advice to anyone privately other than to my clients, so if it's about your game, your best bet is ask your question here and I'll weigh in along with the other posters.
here are the links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAR37Bv2Qak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK-z1rBI_ec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-kATKSA1rI
especially in the head-on vid,you can see my cue veering off slightly as i take my practice strokes,i don't know how to fix this
Ok. I see two things.
1.) I don't think your issue is your shoulder. You're shooting pool with the fingers of your grip hand. What I mean by that is that if you watch your back hand as you move the cue, you open and close your grip with each stroke. Each time you open and close your grip, it twirls the cue, swinging it slightly side-to-side. Also, your grip pressure appears to be towards the bottom of your fingers.
There are players who like to shoot pool with their fingers. I don't agree with this method of playing. I encourage players I work with to shoot pool by simply moving their arm back and forth, and to save the finger manipulations on the cue for specialty shots.
This is not an easy change because it will change the way your hand feels on the cue. Just try griping it tightly, then loosen it and shoot with your arm. Move your arm, not your hand.
2.) The other issue is that after you get into your stance, you lean forward. I don't agree with this either. However, I do understand that this is one of the established snooker stances. I agree with the other snooker stance where your alignment has you leaning slightly back as you get down over the shot.
1.) I don't think your issue is your shoulder. You're shooting pool with the fingers of your grip hand. What I mean by that is that if you watch your back hand as you move the cue, you open and close your grip with each stroke. Each time you open and close your grip, it twirls the cue, swinging it slightly side-to-side. Also, your grip pressure appears to be towards the bottom of your fingers.
There are players who like to shoot pool with their fingers. I don't agree with this method of playing. I encourage players I work with to shoot pool by simply moving their arm back and forth, and to save the finger manipulations on the cue for specialty shots.
This is not an easy change because it will change the way your hand feels on the cue. Just try griping it tightly, then loosen it and shoot with your arm. Move your arm, not your hand.
2.) The other issue is that after you get into your stance, you lean forward. I don't agree with this either. However, I do understand that this is one of the established snooker stances. I agree with the other snooker stance where your alignment has you leaning slightly back as you get down over the shot.
thanks for the advice.i suspected the grip hand to be an issue other than the shoulder but having tried a tighter grip and seeing that it didn't work,i went back to my loose grip however i didn't experiment much with the tighter grip & gave it up quickly so i will give it another try.but i just want to clarify some things because i could be doing wrong,by gripping the cue tightly,do you mean that there should be no gaps between the cue/fingers?when i pull back the cue,should i not release my pinkie from the cue at all?also when you say to grip it tightly and then loosen it do you mean holding it tightly as i pull back & then loosen it as i move the cue forward?
i have played many times with a snooker stance that favors my back foot slightly in weight distribution in the past,so this change won't be a problem for me.
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No sorry, I didn't mean that at all. My fault for not being clear. You should shoot most shots with a loose grip. I just suggested that you tighten it to get the hand position right. Then loosen it before you begin your practice strokes. Relax your thumb and index finger on the cue. Keep all fingers on the cue. The last two will move naturally as you stroke with your arm but they won't move completely off the cue. Resist the urge to push the cue forward with your hand. Use your arm.
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ok thanks,i got it now,going to practice to try this out!
i'm just wondering about one more thing,when you're taking the practice strokes should the cue not have any left or right rotation at all?should the movement only be backwards and forward?it seems very difficult for me to not twist the cue even a little while i swing it back & forth
No, you shouldn't have any twisting motion while practice stroking. If you do, then you're probably still releasing and grabbing the cue with your back hand. It takes a while to let go of an old habit. It always wants to creep back in.
i don't know what's happening but it just seems impossible to not twist the cue even a little.the moment i pull the cue back even in the beginning of the backswing,i can see the cue rotating a little.i don't know exactly how to best describe it but it just feels like my pinkie starts to slightly slide off its original position while i pull the cue back even if i try to not open up my grip.might shoot another video from the back showing my grip if you are willing to help
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Sure, go ahead and post a link to another video.
here are the links,the first 4 are from the back showing the delivery & the other 2 are just me playing the ghost.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLf8bTJUH4Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtRXWyjhBSQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k_J-EC02Vw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N1Bm8Agn3Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdzg2otS1ks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9K6IB9kQKM
Well done!!!
You have worked very hard at this and it is paying off. Great work! Your back hand is much improved.
Now for a couple of comments:
While I didn't notice any grabbing when you were running out the racks, I did notice that you did grab the cue a bit in your draw practice shots. Maybe you were doing that to get power, which is a technique that some players use, particularly in breaking, but there is always the danger of twisting the cue.
I think you will find that you don't need to grab the cue on most power shots if you improve your stroke timing a little more.... which leads me to the next part.
Stay down longer on each shot. Wait an extra one or two seconds before getting up. What you are doing now is cutting your follow-through short as you start to get up.
Complete your follow through and stay down the extra second or two. Planning ahead for that will improve your stroke timing. You will find that you don't need that extra grab on your power draw shots if your timing is good.
I'm very impressed! Keep up the great work!
You have worked very hard at this and it is paying off. Great work! Your back hand is much improved.
Now for a couple of comments:
While I didn't notice any grabbing when you were running out the racks, I did notice that you did grab the cue a bit in your draw practice shots. Maybe you were doing that to get power, which is a technique that some players use, particularly in breaking, but there is always the danger of twisting the cue.
I think you will find that you don't need to grab the cue on most power shots if you improve your stroke timing a little more.... which leads me to the next part.
Stay down longer on each shot. Wait an extra one or two seconds before getting up. What you are doing now is cutting your follow-through short as you start to get up.
Complete your follow through and stay down the extra second or two. Planning ahead for that will improve your stroke timing. You will find that you don't need that extra grab on your power draw shots if your timing is good.
I'm very impressed! Keep up the great work!
thanks for the encouragement,it means a lot.
what worries me though is that i still have a little rotation of the cue on my backswings as seen in the videos.i know you said that i'm still grabbing a bit on the power draw shots but i think it happens slightly on other shots as well.i don't know if you've noticed but i have very short fingers,maybe even shorter than women,so it's not that easy to keep my pinkie on the cue on power shots.i maybe way off on that one but it could be a factor for the twisting of the cue.
You can't beat Frans suggestions she has helped me.
Keeping it simple and natural is whats its all about.
I offer this to the OP.
From a standing position with no cue in your hand, look down at it. You should notice that your hand is already forming a cradle with your thumb pointed in slightly toward your body.
Slide the cue into that cradle and position the thumb to prevent the cue from falling out of the cradle.
When you address the QB address it with a closed hand, then loosen the grip to the cradle mentioned above, (practice strokes) pull back the cue in the cradle, bring the cue forward in the cradle. When you finally decide to make the shot the hand will close naturally upon impact. (see Frans post on the fingers role) Its not something that you want to make happen, just LET it happen.
Fran, if I'm out of line just let me know.
I read all of your posts and love them.
Take care and hope this helps the OP.
John
just for clarification,the cradle is the ring formed by the thumb & index finger right?i don't know if this will help but i'll give it a try.my problem from what i saw in the delivery video and from what i feel in my back hand while i'm playing is that each time i pull the cue back,the cue rotates slightly to the left & each time the cue rotates,it turns my wrist slightly out (to the right) causing the cue to go offline.
Practice one handed 30 minutes a day or more.
Only use the rails if the cue ball is within 3 inches or so.
Don't be afraid to strike the cue ball with power.
Aim dead center on the cue ball.
Don't worry about position until you are steady.
Finding the proper position for the swing hand is critical with one or two hands.
There are one handed drills, for now I would throw them on the table and run out, rinse and repeat. The Straight shot is your friend, do not rest the cue on the rail.
SS
Only use the rails if the cue ball is within 3 inches or so.
Don't be afraid to strike the cue ball with power.
Aim dead center on the cue ball.
Don't worry about position until you are steady.
Finding the proper position for the swing hand is critical with one or two hands.
There are one handed drills, for now I would throw them on the table and run out, rinse and repeat. The Straight shot is your friend, do not rest the cue on the rail.
SS
Your fingers aren't too short. They're fine. As for women's fingers, mine are so long I could probably wrap them twice around the cue. I don't see the rotation you're referring to but if you feel it happening then it's probably there a little. Check the position of your knuckles on the cue before and after you complete your stroke. If they have changed their position on the cue, then you are still twisting the cue.
Focus on keeping your knuckles in the exact same position on the cue all the way through your stroke.
That should help.
You've come a long way in a short time. Change takes time.