Pool Streams. Help US Understand them

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Accu-Stat says you need about 1000 kbps to watch their stream. I believe 1000 kbps is next to nothing now a days. When TAR or Accu-Stat stream from their own studio/venue it almost is always good quality. Both companies, when streaming off site have quality issues, telling me it's too low bandwith at the venues. If this is true, is there not a way to test how much bandwith a venue has before charging for a low quality stream? I and I'm sure many other PPV buyers on here and facebook would like to know we are getting a good stream before shelling out our hard earned money. I'm sure others have quit buying streams because of low quality. Johnnyt
 
Perhaps one of the streamers can be more specific about site by site problems, but the main issue is probably the internet service that your average pool hall has. Most internet providers do not provide symmetric service, meaning that upload speeds are severely limited to free more bandwidth for downloads. This will cause problems for streaming, especially if a venue does not have commercial grade equipment or internet services.
 
JasBy said:
Perhaps one of the streamers can be more specific about site by site problems, but the main issue is probably the internet service that your average pool hall has. Most internet providers do not provide symmetric service, meaning that upload speeds are severely limited to free more bandwidth for downloads. This will cause problems for streaming, especially if a venue does not have commercial grade equipment or internet services.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. I wonder if anyone knows if bandwith strength can be checked days before asking us to buy PPV? I think I saw a dedacated line was $120 per month. Johnnyt
 
There are so many possible issues its insane. One of the main ones being upload speed. You know how most internet these days is around 20 down and 5 up? Well its usually actually 15 down and 2 up. So along with bandwidth issues the are problems with data speed, latency, low signal strength or quality. The solution? Possibly running the stream off a high powered cell signal (which can be expensive).
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
I'll bore you with some techno talk. 1000 kb/s means nothing, when it comes to streaming video. Most internet traffic is done using a protocol called TCP/IP. Basically, think of it as a jigsaw puzzle being sent to you. As long as all the pieces arrive, it doesn't matter which order they arrive in. The computer assembles the jigsaw puzzle, and you get a picture. Video streaming is done using a protocol called UDP, or, as it's called in the industry, "fire and forget". The protocol is real time. Imagine the episode of I Love Lucy, and the chocolates on the conveyor belt. Every chocolate that drops on the floor is a lost video packet, which means the frame you're watching will have degradation. Think of it as a jigsaw puzzle that needs to arrive complete, within 20ms (milliseconds....20 thousanths of a second).

If you're using a standard internet connection, there is no "real way" to guarantee that the stream will be high quality. It may suck for you on your computer, because you may have a lot of congestion in your network. Simple things like having halogen lightbulbs on dimmer switches in your home can cause interference with your modem, which will cause packet errors. Are there things you can do to improve the quality of your internet signal inside your home? Absolutely. I used to travel all over the world teaching communications companies how to clean up their networks. But, to say that you have a 5Mbps connection, so 1000 kbps is nothing, and you should have a flawless and clean video stream.....doesn't cut it. Yep, you can have a 5M line that cannot support a stream rate of 320 kbps. It all depends on how clean your home network, and provider's network is to outside noise and interference.

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Does this mean Netflix streams are different, or does Netflix have a different system? Johnnyt
 
are these good numbers?
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2014-11-25 at 12.27.51 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2014-11-25 at 12.27.51 PM.png
    64 KB · Views: 820
Shawn Armstrong said:
It all depends. It's like me saying "is 14 lbs a good number". Depends on the frame of reference. 14 lb bowling ball - heavy. 14 lb bench press - weak.

You are able to upload a static file, and download a file at a high speed. Again, it's measuring TCP/IP. Which measures nothing as to how good the quality of your connection is. It just shows you have a fast connection. And that speed test is only for your network, as well. Your speed would go down with more "hops" between service providers.
Click to expand...

Buzz Killington. I hear what you're saying but I think you went in a bit much, but most may not of known and assume so it's good that you did.

This is a short video most should watch that sheds some light on things others may not of known again. Also the OP mentioned could lead to why streaming at the home location yield better results that at an outside local
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbXe__EtGg4
 
The single biggest hindrance offsite is going to be that they are limited to that venue's UPLOAD capacity which these guys have little, if any control, over.

If they are going to be sending out at 1000kbps then they are going to need about a mb of upload for every person that connects + whatever the venue typically uses on it's own. That stuff comes at a price and I would venture to guess most Pool Halls don't have that kind of connection/capabilities.
 
Johnnyt said:
Thank you for this. I wonder if anyone knows if bandwith strength can be checked days before asking us to buy PPV? I think I saw a dedacated line was $120 per month. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

Well the venue should know their network upload capabilities and if they can get it increased or not. Question is.... will they?

If they are doing it from their studio they could be using their own connectivity over wireless like news reporters/espn to provide it (not sure how big they are to if they would actually do that) to their studio that has much greater viewing capacity (upload to the internet) for the viewing paid subscribers. However, if they are relying on the venue to provide the upload to their studio or to the paying subscribers it is still going to rely on that venue's connection.
 
Skippy27 said:
The single biggest hindrance offsite is going to be that they are limited to that venue's UPLOAD capacity which these guys have little, if any control, over.

If they are going to be sending out at 1000kbps then they are going to need about a mb of upload for every person that connects + whatever the venue typically uses on it's own. That stuff comes at a price and I would venture to guess most Pool Halls don't have that kind of connection/capabilities.
Click to expand...

This is false. So when 1000 people watch a stream they have to have a 1GB upload speed? Come on mannnnnnnnn
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
I'll bore you with some techno talk. 1000 kb/s means nothing, when it comes to streaming video. Most internet traffic is done using a protocol called TCP/IP. Basically, think of it as a jigsaw puzzle being sent to you. As long as all the pieces arrive, it doesn't matter which order they arrive in. The computer assembles the jigsaw puzzle, and you get a picture. Video streaming is done using a protocol called UDP, or, as it's called in the industry, "fire and forget". The protocol is real time. Imagine the episode of I Love Lucy, and the chocolates on the conveyor belt. Every chocolate that drops on the floor is a lost video packet, which means the frame you're watching will have degradation. Think of it as a jigsaw puzzle that needs to arrive complete, within 20ms (milliseconds....20 thousanths of a second).

If you're using a standard internet connection, there is no "real way" to guarantee that the stream will be high quality. It may suck for you on your computer, because you may have a lot of congestion in your network. Simple things like having halogen lightbulbs on dimmer switches in your home can cause interference with your modem, which will cause packet errors. Are there things you can do to improve the quality of your internet signal inside your home? Absolutely. I used to travel all over the world teaching communications companies how to clean up their networks. But, to say that you have a 5Mbps connection, so 1000 kbps is nothing, and you should have a flawless and clean video stream.....doesn't cut it. Yep, you can have a 5M line that cannot support a stream rate of 320 kbps. It all depends on how clean your home network, and provider's network is to outside noise and interference.

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

That's great knowledge thanks. :thumbup:
I guess at the moment there are too many variables to ensure a smooth stream in every single household, with or without broadband?
 
Last edited:
Shawn Armstrong said:
Absolutely correct. IP based video is an evolution, kind of like the old land line telephones we used years ago. There are a ton of factors that contribute to stream quality, aside from the provider's upstream capabilities. Internet video isn't all that bandwidth intensive. People seem to think that "I have a shitpile of bandwidth, so I will have awesome streams". Not the case. I could go into more techno babble, discussing I frames, P frames, and B frames, and how disrupting one single I frame can cause LOS (loss of signal) errors in video streams.....the point I'm getting at is that a stream sent to you could be 96% error free, and still look jittery and have lag. Or have poor video quality.

It isn't something as simple as "get more upstream", or "upgrade your internet package".
Click to expand...

The video sharing sites offer a workaround. If you lease a pretty beefy dedicated server, you can stream to them and they will cast it to your viewers. Delay ends up being in the neighborhood of 10 seconds.

Get a cellular hotspot with unlimited 4G service and you can stream a world class event every month extremely reliably.

Yes, the two things I mentioned cost actual money, so no professional streamer will be interested, but I have cast events using my phone in a jam with absolutely no interruptions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top