attitude or fundamentals...which is more important ?

[j_zippel]

With good solid fundamentals your par game will become higher. Without them you will score -10 one day and +18 the next. They bring consistency to your game I guess is what I'm trying to get at. They won't make you play amazing over night or over the course of a year but you won't have as many off days. In a race to 5 I am capable of beating SVB. In a race to 100 I don't stand a chance. Shane's par game is a lot better than my par game... So over time he will come out on top.

People view having solid fundamentals as a way to make you a better player. They arent. The make you a consistent player. Having mental toughness, never knowing when you're beat... Those are personality traits that will serve you well in pool, they can't be taught imo. The only way to become a better player is with experience. The more experience you have with good fundamentals the better your bad days will be... Meaning you can still beat players on a bad day.

The mentality of beating the best on your worst day is a trait only the best players have. Acquiring mental toughness certainly comes with experience but also confidence. Confidence is a direct result of practice and repetition.

Realistically pidge, how often do you practice and what types of shots do you work on? Just wondering if there's drills you feel specifically helps your confidence or gives you an edge playing a match

 

[rrick33]

If two people of equal fundamental skill (Good or Bad) are playing each other....the one with the better attitude has the advantage.

If two people with equal attitudes (Good or Bad) are playing each other.....the one with the better fundamentals has the advantage.

 

[Pidge]

The mentality of beating the best on your worst day is a trait only the best players have. Acquiring mental toughness certainly comes with experience but also confidence. Confidence is a direct result of practice and repetition.

Realistically pidge, how often do you practice and what types of shots do you work on? Just wondering if there's drills you feel specifically helps your confidence or gives you an edge playing a match

In pool I practice straight in shots... A LOT. I hit maybe a hundred a day before I even think about playing. I aim to hit stop shots at about 6-7 ft apart. Object ball is not far from the pocket... I concentrate purely on how I hit the cue ball. The aim is to hit them form and stop the white dead. No roll forward, backwards sideways or side spin. Once I hit 15 in a row I stop... I like ending on a high note then I run some racks. That is, in a nutshell my practice.

In snooker its a little more regimented and formal. More line up drills and dig zag drills, that kind of thing. I probably practice snooker 3 times a week, tops. I don't care for making balls in practice generally, I'm more concerned about how I hit the white. When in hitting it well my confidence is high and I will never refuse a pot due to this. This mentality has won me more frames than I've lost. Probably at an estimated ratio of 4:1.

 

[(((Satori)))]

With good solid fundamentals your par game will become higher. Without them you will score -10 one day and +18 the next. They bring consistency to your game I guess is what I'm trying to get at.

The same thing can be said about mentality.


A person can be mentally weak one day or against one player and their game will show it. But against a different player or on a different day with a better mentality they might play 3 balls better.

 

[(((Satori)))]

If two people of equal fundamental skill (Good or Bad) are playing each other....the one with the better attitude has the advantage.

If two people with equal attitudes (Good or Bad) are playing each other.....the one with the better fundamentals has the advantage.

Ive also seen better players get beat by someone with more confidence and Ive seen guys with more confidence get beat by better players.


Bottom line is both skill and attitude are important.

 

[Pidge]

The same thing can be said about mentality.


A person can be mentally weak one day or against one player and their game will show it. But against a different player or on a different day with a better mentality they might play 3 balls better.

I've never experienced it. I've never seen any of the guys I regularly play experience anything like this either. Players with sound fundamentals will play well regardless of their mentality. I am a pessimist by nature but if I don't think I'm going to beat someone I don't play bad because of this outlook. Likewise there is nothing funnier than an optimist thinking they can win then play terrible.

 

[(((Satori)))]

I've never experienced it. I've never seen any of the guys I regularly play experience anything like this either. Players with sound fundamentals will play well regardless of their mentality. I am a pessimist by nature but if I don't think I'm going to beat someone I don't play bad because of this outlook. Likewise there is nothing funnier than an optimist thinking they can win then play terrible.

A big part of competitive sports is getting into the other guys head. You can win before the game ever happens sometimes.

You might want to rethink the importance of confidence and its ability to raise or lower someones skill output. Even world class performers are not immune.

 

[lorider]

:grin::grin:some good info and valid opinions on here....thanks fellas.

how ever i think some are missing my point. i am not saying an attitude....confidence...mental state ...or what ever you want to call it will make you a better player than you really are,

what i am saying is ...having the right attitude will allow you to play at the highest level you are capable of.

lets hash out my attitude against the 7 i faced in my 1st match. i have played this guy numerous times over the years and have never beat him. not even when he was a 6. the reason why is not because he may or may not be a better player than me. it was because i got frustrated by his penchant for slop shots. he is a great shooter but is well known for his ability to smack a ball at warp speed ...go 3 or more rails ...finding a pocket and be good on the next ball.it would frustrate the hell outa me and when i did get to the table i would be thinking about his shit shot or that he missed and left me hooked. this time i would just chuckle and walk to the table focused on nothing but the task at hand...consequently i made shots i would have missed before.

as for the 2nd match against the 8. again...another guy i haved faced numerous times over the years and have never beat. quite simply because he is a helluva lot better than me.

upon learning i was facing him 3 thoughts crossed my mind and helped develop a positive attitude in this match.

1. i recollected my conversation with him the 1st time i ever faced him. it was in a master league match 3 years ago. after i lost to him 7-2 he asked me what my handicap was. i told him i was a 4. he said....man i would hate to face you in a handicap match. he was a 7 at the time. my thought entering this match was ...well you are in a handicap match now and its gonna be your best vs my best...all i gotta do is take advantage of every opportunity available when i get to the table.

this time...instead of me getting frustrated i saw him get visibly frustrated several times when he played safe and i would kick out of them successfully every time and somtimes safe him back,

2. relied on a pearl of wisdom a good friend gave me several years ago....play the table....not your opponent. we were in the finals of a money league match. 2,500.00 for 1st place and 1,500.00 for 2nd. when my captain threw me the other team countered with an 8... i was a 3 at the time. i muttered ....i can't beat him. my co- captain ....the highest in the league at a 10 said.....play the table ....not your opponent. i kept telling myself that every time i went to the table and won 3-0. we threw a helluva party aftter winning 1st place.:grin:

3 another good friend told me....if you can't run out ...play safe. adhered to that philosophy the entire match.

bottom line is my mental state allowed me to play at the highest level my fundamentls are capable of.

now next time i will probly have my head up my ass and lose to a 3 and be called a sand bagger lol.

 

[lorider]

That was a story about having a good attitude? Seemed like you had a terrible attitude.

Anyone who thinks attitude is more important, or even more than 1/10 as important as physical skills: Take one of the toughest competitors in the world, say, Michael Jordan, and enter him into a regional pool tournament. There's no way that his attitude is going to make up for the fact that he can't play pool. On the other hand, take Earl Strickland's incredible ability and pair it with Earl Strickland's absolutely horrendous attitude, and you've still got one of the best players who ever lived.

read my long winded post # 28 all i am saying is you can't rely on just fundamentals....if so you are just going through the motions so to speak. you gotta have an abundance of both to play at a high level.

at 61 years old i find it quite exhausting mentally and physically..to do both at the same time during a match. consequently some days i play like a 3 and others like a 7 and as a result i am stuck in the middle as a 5.

 

[FranCrimi]

I think both are equally important in competition.

Your attitude will determine what percentage of your skills you will bring to the table in competition.

You still have to develop your skills, though.

 

[sixpack]

I think there's a tipping point. Fundamentals are everything until they are 'good enough' - after that attitude/mental outlook gets more important until, at the higher skill levels attitude is everything.

I struggled with this early and spent a lot of time on my fundamentals until I couldn't help but make balls and win no matter how bad my attitude....then I started playing better players and attitude became much, much more important.

The real question though, is: 'what is the best attitude for top performance?'

Some play best mad, some calm and confident, some terrified of losing, some bring a sheer will to win.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I think it is self-defeating to try to choose one or the other. A great player with great technique will run out no matter how hard they pout, but attitude will catch up to them when they compete against players of their own standard. It shows up in bad shot selection, rushed shots etc.

But I think a player can always stand to improve some part of their fundamentals. I've just seen too many examples of professionals evolving their technique over the years. Stephen Hendry changed his cue action over the course of the 90's. Ronnie O'Sullivan used to have a short jabby stroke in the late 90's. I remember seeing a brief video of Niels Feijien from the late 90's before he introduced a pause in his stroke. Efren's stance is completely different from the one he utilized in 80's.

No matter how good your fundamentals are, you will struggle if you always have a bad attitude. And no matter how good your attitude is, errant mechanics will cause you to miss shots even if you concentrate on every shot until your nose bleeds.

 

[fastone371]

In pool I practice straight in shots... A LOT. I hit maybe a hundred a day before I even think about playing. I aim to hit stop shots at about 6-7 ft apart. Object ball is not far from the pocket... I concentrate purely on how I hit the cue ball. The aim is to hit them form and stop the white dead. No roll forward, backwards sideways or side spin. Once I hit 15 in a row I stop... I like ending on a high note then I run some racks. That is, in a nutshell my practice./QUOTE]

I do the same thing. I have a 9' table and I line the balls up diagonally pocket to pocket to make the shots long. I then practice stop shots, draw shots, and follow shots. I usually do 2 racks of each shot. I do not put the ball near the pocket though. I set it up so I have equal distance between QB & OB and OB & pocket. It is not unusual for me not to make all 15 in a row, but the more I practice these the more likely I am to make all 15.
As far as attitude, it gives me confidence that my opponent can not safe me by simply leaving me long, especially since everything is on bar boxes up here.

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

When I was 22 in university, I was a very good player...probably the best I have ever been...fundamentally, skills-wise.

But any time I got into a tourney and played someone I played with regularly, I would find ways to lose. I had one tourney, race-to-five nine-ball where I was shooting the nine on the hill. My opponent was at 2. I got down on the nine, missed it and never made another ball that match because I told myself that I shouldn't be able to beat my opponent.

I'd do that every time I played someone near my skill level.

I basically quit pool for a few years when I started playing competitive foosball. When I started playing foosball I quickly realized that I could play my absolute best and not have a chance at winning a match--probably not even a single game.

What that did was eliminate EVERY obstacle I had mentally build and allowed me to play my best.

When I came back to pool I wasn't near my former level, but mentally I knew how to play my best.

Both are very important. Your results will be inconsistent at best if you are lacking either.

 

[SFC9ball]

Fundamentals and Mental go hand in hand.

In the beginning a player needs the fundamentals more then the mental aspect because if you cant hit the cue ball straight the rest is a mute point. After you have the fundamentals down good then the mental state becomes important in learning how to compete, patterns, shot selection ETC. Then you graduate to the mental part of the game is key because the fundamentals are so ingrained you do them automatically and only have to do a check up on them to ensure you haven't developed and bad habits.

 

[Pidge]

In pool I practice straight in shots... A LOT. I hit maybe a hundred a day before I even think about playing. I aim to hit stop shots at about 6-7 ft apart. Object ball is not far from the pocket... I concentrate purely on how I hit the cue ball. The aim is to hit them form and stop the white dead. No roll forward, backwards sideways or side spin. Once I hit 15 in a row I stop... I like ending on a high note then I run some racks. That is, in a nutshell my practice./QUOTE]

I do the same thing. I have a 9' table and I line the balls up diagonally pocket to pocket to make the shots long. I then practice stop shots, draw shots, and follow shots. I usually do 2 racks of each shot. I do not put the ball near the pocket though. I set it up so I have equal distance between QB & OB and OB & pocket. It is not unusual for me not to make all 15 in a row, but the more I practice these the more likely I am to make all 15.
As far as attitude, it gives me confidence that my opponent can not safe me by simply leaving me long, especially since everything is on bar boxes up here.

On straight in drills its not so important that you make balls, you want to look at what the white is doing. Trying to stop it dead is extremely challenging when the distance is over 6ft.as you bridge on a rail the difficulty skyrockets. I can pot straight in shots for fun with my eyes closed, they're simple regardless of distance. What's tough is hitting the white perfectly. Of you can hit a full rack with 6ft distance stopping the white dead then you can make any pot on the table and you have near perfect control over the white.