How much does low deflection really matter?

I would agree 100% with your original statement that it doesnt really matter as you get use to what you shoot with. If you always play with the same stick then you will adapt to the deflection and it will become second nature to you.

I believe the exact same can be said with tips. If gave you the exact same stick you always shoot with but put a different tip on it, then you will probably need to shoot with it for a little while to adapt to the affect that it has on your cue ball control.
 
All I know is that LD forced me to address errors in my stroke that I wouldn't have known existed if I'd kept on with standard shafts.

This doesn't make since to me at all, please clarify.

LD would have less deflection so an accidental hitting of the cue ball off center would cause the cue ball to move off the shot line less than a high deflection shaft.
 
This doesn't make since to me at all, please clarify.

LD would have less deflection so an accidental hitting of the cue ball off center would cause the cue ball to move off the shot line less than a high deflection shaft.

If your stroke is off, the "correct" bridge length to correct for deflection with a LD shaft is HUGE. No one uses a bridge that long. With a regular shaft, and reasonable bridge length, stroke errors are automatically corrected for.

This is the whole concept of "back hand english." I started doing it like that almost 30 years ago, not because I knew what I was doing, but that's just how I could make the balls go in. I didn't even know I was doing it until I took my first lesson a few months ago. He wanted me to cut it out, but I'm not gonna and haven't been back for a second lesson yet, so we'll see how that goes. :)
 
I think LD shafts are great. Main reason being is the overall rigidness. I first used the LD shaft with the precat 314s. Before that I used a schon shaft for a long time, which was whippy as hell. I've gone thru a good amount of cues since then and each time I find the stock shaft to be whippy, and some require a good amount of compensation. I don't think it will improve your game but if you can get use to adjusting for your cue then by all means stick with what makes you happy. For me it's the consistency of the shaft and the ability to switch cue butts without affecting my general feel and aim. I recently switched to a revo p3. It looks weird, sounds a bit weird, feels a bit hollow, but it gives me a confidence in my cue which is maybe the most important aspect of it. I know it will always do the same thing every time regardless of conditions and that is probably the most important. Also I gotta add, I don't know what predator has done to the p3 butt but it's changed for the better. It's no longer thicker than usual and it feels a crap ton more solid than prior predator cues. I tried the roadline sneaky, sport 2, black p3 butt with the revo shaft and none of them feel as solid as the p3 revo butt. Rather surprising to me.
 
same as in golf, the not so good players are always looking for a gimmick to make them play better. that is human nature. manufacturers need to keep selling new ideas as to improve sales. if they didnt people wouldnt up grade as much.
look at all the golf commercials about how their club will gain you ten yards. that has been going on for decades. or their club hits straighter.

pool and golf its all in the swing, not the club. if it was everyone would be using the same one.
 
Where in the world is Patrick Johnson? I know this is a thread that has him wringing his hands in pain.

I have a theory about people who play with traditional maple shafts and that is that they use less English than those who use LD shafts.

Secondly, if you notice really good players who play with traditional maple shafts, they almost always have "tuned" their shafts by having them turned down (sanded) and thereby reduced the amount of cueball squirt.

John Schmidt, when he won the U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship had a shaft who ferrule diameter was 12.0 and yes, it was a traditional maple shaft/cue made by Bobby Hunter.

Most of the European players seem to favor LD shafts. MANY elite American players play with LD shafts.

Ok, I didn't say much about random or generic players but I will now.

I kept my son away from pool for most of his life because I wanted him to get an education and a good job. After that was all done, I had been working on my pool game. My son started playing pool with me at pool tournaments and his first cue was a traditional maple shaft and cue because it was cheap and there was no reason for him to invest more money into something that he might never take an interest in.

Along came Steve Titus, one of the inventors of Predator Cues. Steve spent a few weeks hanging out in my neighborhood and at the time he was building LD DymondWood cues. He gave me an opportunity to play with his LD cues and I noticed that they played similar to other LD shaft except that they were even stiffer than most LD shafts. I liked them right away. During that one month, I learned a lot about LD cues. I bought one of the two cues that Steve had left as he only made approximately 7 prototypes. He sold another one to another local guy and left town. We stayed in touch for a while but fell off my radar screen. Hope he is doing well.

Anyway, I fell in love with the way his DW cues played and one day, my son who never practices asked me if he could hit some balls with my Titus cue. Keep in mind, at that time, my son did not have ANY knowledge of squirt, swerve, English or any of the finer points of pool and had only a basic understanding of fundamentals. I gave it to him to play with and he returned about 30 minutes later, and said, "Dad, this cue sticks makes the cue ball go where you want it to go." It was then that I realized that this LD cue made a very positive difference with a relatively new person to the game. Since Steve decided that he would no longer make cues I decided to try my hand at designing LD cues made of DymondWood. It took 2 years of experimenting with building the cues to get to this point and I only have about 3-4 cues built per year. I know now why Steve didn't want to go back into building LD DymondWood cues. Lol

So yes, I am positive that my son received some immediate benefit from playing with a LD cue. He now owns the most gaudy DW cue you have ever seen. One day I will post a photo of his Performance Cue. :-)

JoeyA


Let's say for the sake of argument that we rank three shafts from lowest to highest deflection (I'm not saying necessarily that this is the case, just for the sake of argument).

1) Predator Z
2) OB-2
3) Lucasi Zero Flex

Will a random or generic player perform BETTER with the lower deflection shaft?



I have to think that whatever amount of deflection your shaft causes, it's always a matter of learning to adjust to your shaft, regardless of the how much deflection there is. It seems to me that elevating your game is much more a matter of learning to adjust to the deflection.

For instance, the Predator Z series is hugely popular in my area among amateurs. However, I see very few professionals playing the Z shaft.

So at the end of the day, provided you're playing with some kind of low-deflection tech shaft (ie. any of the above brands, and then some), objectively speaking, does it really matter?
 
^ Great post :)

My personal take on this matter is that everyone should try both types of shafts and see what is closer to their expectations. I play better with a somewhat LD shaft, rather than a 13mm standard maple shaft. Yet too little deflection makes a shaft harder to play with as I expect to have some squirt.
I feel that a LD shaft like a 314 makes the cue balls path more easily predictable where with a standard shaft it is more complicated with more throw and increased swerve also.


Play with what you like and what feels right for you :)
 
IMO, and I use a LD shaft, the low deflection thing matters little, they all deflect, and our mind gets used to whatever it is, rather it's all about consistent flex when the shaft strikes the ball.
With a solid maple shaft turned so the grain is perpendicular to the table surface, the shaft is more flexible than when the grain is parallel to the table surface. Hit off center ball intentionally or not, the CB reacts differently. With LD laminated shafts, deflection is generally about the same no matter how shaft is turned. More forgiving.
When making wooden arrows for traditional archery, it's all which way the grain is running. Google it.
Again, just my opinion, but I've done lots of traditional archery, made hundreds of wooden arrows.
 
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You're spot on!
JoeyA

^ Great post :)

My personal take on this matter is that everyone should try both types of shafts and see what is closer to their expectations. I play better with a somewhat LD shaft, rather than a 13mm standard maple shaft. Yet too little deflection makes a shaft harder to play with as I expect to have some squirt.
I feel that a LD shaft like a 314 makes the cue balls path more easily predictable where with a standard shaft it is more complicated with more throw and increased swerve also.


Play with what you like and what feels right for you :)
 
same as in golf, the not so good players are always looking for a gimmick to make them play better. that is human nature. manufacturers need to keep selling new ideas as to improve sales. if they didnt people wouldnt up grade as much.
look at all the golf commercials about how their club will gain you ten yards. that has been going on for decades. or their club hits straighter.

pool and golf its all in the swing, not the club. if it was everyone would be using the same one.

I don't think you should use golf as a simily. I don't see many touring pro's using the old Hickory shafts, Persimmon woods, steel shafts in drivers, balata balls, the list can go on and on. Its called technology. It keeps advancing. You are either on board with it, or you are not. I swore off LD shafts for years. Fortunately, or unfortunately I now use them majority of the time. I have come to realize that if I don't hit the exact point I am aiming for, my margin of error reduces with the LD shaft. If I get out of shape and need more English (especially if I have to hit it harder) I have less of a guess on how much deflection I am going to play. Its pretty much that simple. Can it be done with a standard maple shaft? Of course it can.
 
Speaking from my own personal opinion, it has helped me a lot. I recently got a Cuetec R360 shaft and I have noticed that there is a much better hit and my straight in shot making ability has gotten better. I did decide to go back and use the first shaft that came with the cue and couldn't get used to it again. But that's just me.
 
How so Freddie?

JoeyA

Freddie, to clarify a little further. My theory is that people who use traditional maple shafts (not LD) use side spin less often, relying more on getting shape by using the vertical axis of the cue ball, speed and better angles for utilizing the rails to get shape.

JoeyA
 
Freddie, to clarify a little further. My theory is that people who use traditional maple shafts (not LD) use side spin less often, relying more on getting shape by using the vertical axis of the cue ball, speed and better angles for utilizing the rails to get shape.

JoeyA

As Freddie says, it's not true.
 
How so Freddie?

JoeyA

Your theory was basically a yes or no binary proposition, and you theorized per your quote that those that play with standard shafts shoot with less English. That's not true on any level. For that to be true, the tremendous amount of English that players used prior to LD shafts would suddenly have to be significantly increased when using LD shafts, which wouldn't be physically possible. Or there would have to be a significant decrease in English use among traditional shaft users.

People were using English before LD shafts. Why would there be some decrease ? There wouldn't.
 
Freddie, to clarify a little further. My theory is that people who use traditional maple shafts (not LD) use side spin less often, relying more on getting shape by using the vertical axis of the cue ball, speed and better angles for utilizing the rails to get shape.

JoeyA

That's not true either.
 
I hate LDs absolutely hate them.
So FOR ME the answer is a resounding NO!!!!
It's just a matter of what [one] get used to....


I'm with you 9Ballr.
I don't use LDs.
I grew up playing regular playing cues.
It's what I'm used to.

If one chooses to use LDs, I have no problem with it at all.
 
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