Todays equilizer? And a fix? Fast cloth

[nick serdula]

On fast cloth there are a hand full of women that can beat most men!
Why? It isn't the game. It is the equipment. The handicap of fast cloth.
I say that because giving up the slow cloth handicaps the weaker players at all levels.
Put the men and women on slow cloth. You will see 5 speeds and the best women will be in low third. No break or power for the cloth. Most tournament playing men will be in low fourth. The Asians and rebels will be more likely to dominate with a hand full at the top or overdrive.
Why? Humidity. The skill and power needed on slow is under estimated greatly by modern players and they can not compete at as high a level.
The mouth said it years ago. They killed the game with this cloth. Mike Seigal
And they have.
It is basketball with a small ball and 6 foot high rims.
Gambling is almost gone too. Why? The game is now crap. Too easy for too many people. Less skill needed. Low deflection shafts? Tomato stakes on slow cloth. On slow cloth you have to be able to play. Not put. Play.

Fast cloth should be for Lady's play. Slow cloth should be for the men.
Like in golf you have the men and woman tees.
The men really play good on girls cloth.
Don't they?
Nick

 

[Just_Play]

On fast cloth there are a hand full of women that can beat most men!
Why? It isn't the game. It is the equipment. The handicap of fast cloth.
I say that because giving up the slow cloth handicaps the weaker players at all levels.
Put the men and women on slow cloth. You will see 5 speeds and the best women will be in low third. No break or power for the cloth. Most tournament playing men will be in low fourth. The Asians and rebels will be more likely to dominate with a hand full at the top or overdrive.
Why? Humidity. The skill and power needed on slow is under estimated greatly by modern players and they can not compete at as high a level.
The mouth said it years ago. They killed the game with this cloth. Mike Seigal
And they have.
It is basketball with a small ball and 6 foot high rims.
Gambling is almost gone too. Why? The game is now crap. Too easy for too many people. Less skill needed. Low deflection shafts? Tomato stakes on slow cloth. On slow cloth you have to be able to play. Not put. Play.

Fast cloth should be for Lady's play. Slow cloth should be for the men.
Like in golf you have the men and woman tees.
The men really play good on girls cloth.
Don't they?
Nick

Amen Brother!!! You don't need a stroke today.

 

[realkingcobra]

On fast cloth there are a hand full of women that can beat most men!
Why? It isn't the game. It is the equipment. The handicap of fast cloth.
I say that because giving up the slow cloth handicaps the weaker players at all levels.
Put the men and women on slow cloth. You will see 5 speeds and the best women will be in low third. No break or power for the cloth. Most tournament playing men will be in low fourth. The Asians and rebels will be more likely to dominate with a hand full at the top or overdrive.
Why? Humidity. The skill and power needed on slow is under estimated greatly by modern players and they can not compete at as high a level.
The mouth said it years ago. They killed the game with this cloth. Mike Seigal
And they have.
It is basketball with a small ball and 6 foot high rims.
Gambling is almost gone too. Why? The game is now crap. Too easy for too many people. Less skill needed. Low deflection shafts? Tomato stakes on slow cloth. On slow cloth you have to be able to play. Not put. Play.

Fast cloth should be for Lady's play. Slow cloth should be for the men.
Like in golf you have the men and woman tees.
The men really play good on girls cloth.
Don't they?
Nick

So....the best male players can't play BETTER on fast cloth like the women do?

 

[Texas Carom Club]

Ohh brother

 

[nick serdula]

Handicapped play

So....the best male players can't play BETTER on fast cloth like the women do?

Is just that.
Handicapped.
Handicap the world?
Why have pockets?
Hit the rail and shoot again!
There is a reason for everything.
Slow cloth would have to be played roll out.
Really,
The best male players can not show their dominance as easily. They give up too much. It is possible to play at a very high level and display little power. Try that slow roll and spin on slow cloth. Try that two rail reverse follow. 12 foot draw.
You can try. On slow cloth you do or you loose. Because the shot selection of today is useless on the classic equipment.
Diamod tables would be unplayable unless reworked. The pockets you see and the rails are all wrong for the pool everyone played for well ever.
Yes the game is handicapped by the cloth.
No let me rephrase that.
The sport is now less of a sport and more of a game.
Nick

 

[KissedOut]

Is just that.
Handicapped.
Handicap the world?
Why have pockets?
Hit the rail and shoot again!
There is a reason for everything.
Slow cloth would have to be played roll out.
Really,
The best male players can not show their dominance as easily. They give up too much. It is possible to play at a very high level and display little power. Try that slow roll and spin on slow cloth. Try that two rail reverse follow. 12 foot draw.
You can try. On slow cloth you do or you loose. Because the shot selection of today is useless on the classic equipment.
Diamod tables would be unplayable unless reworked. The pockets you see and the rails are all wrong for the pool everyone played for well ever.
Yes the game is handicapped by the cloth.
No let me rephrase that.
The sport is now less of a sport and more of a game.
Nick

Carom players have been asking the bolded question for years. :thumbup:

 

[Henry W]

On fast cloth there are a hand full of women that can beat most men!
Why? It isn't the game. It is the equipment. The handicap of fast cloth.
I say that because giving up the slow cloth handicaps the weaker players at all levels.
Put the men and women on slow cloth. You will see 5 speeds and the best women will be in low third. No break or power for the cloth. Most tournament playing men will be in low fourth. The Asians and rebels will be more likely to dominate with a hand full at the top or overdrive.
Why? Humidity. The skill and power needed on slow is under estimated greatly by modern players and they can not compete at as high a level.
The mouth said it years ago. They killed the game with this cloth. Mike Seigal
And they have.
It is basketball with a small ball and 6 foot high rims.
Gambling is almost gone too. Why? The game is now crap. Too easy for too many people. Less skill needed. Low deflection shafts? Tomato stakes on slow cloth. On slow cloth you have to be able to play. Not put. Play.

Fast cloth should be for Lady's play. Slow cloth should be for the men.
Like in golf you have the men and woman tees.
The men really play good on girls cloth.
Don't they?
Nick

I agree I have played on both and the slower cloth makes for a better game requiring a more powerful stroke and you can do things you can;t do on this no nap cloth. It also lasts longer and you can jump a ball with a regular pool cue. It is a better game. That is the reason they keep making the pockets smaller the cloth makes it so easy at least until it gets some wear and then it a joke.

 

[realkingcobra]

It also lasts longer and you can jump a ball with a regular pool cue. It is a better game.

Really....slow, napped cloth lasts longer than Simonis 860HR? Any time you'd like to bet on that, bet with me first, and bet all your money....I don't want any of the tens of thousands of other table mechanics to get any of your money making the same bet with you:thumbup:

 

[Cornerman]

So....the best male players can't play BETTER on fast cloth like the women do?

I think there's a point of diminishing returns of increasing ones skill for certain skills, if the equipment has less demand to it. If the cloth has made things easier for everyone to make a ball and go three rails, then that stroke and shot that was built for slower conditions is less of an advantage to have on modern equipment.

Would I rather go back to slower cloth and crappy conditions? No, but I can certainly see that some players' strokes wouldn't have been very competitive on those slower conditions.

 

[realkingcobra]

On fast cloth there are a hand full of women that can beat most men!
Why? It isn't the game. It is the equipment. The handicap of fast cloth.
I say that because giving up the slow cloth handicaps the weaker players at all levels.
Put the men and women on slow cloth. You will see 5 speeds and the best women will be in low third. No break or power for the cloth. Most tournament playing men will be in low fourth. The Asians and rebels will be more likely to dominate with a hand full at the top or overdrive.
Why? Humidity. The skill and power needed on slow is under estimated greatly by modern players and they can not compete at as high a level.
The mouth said it years ago. They killed the game with this cloth. Mike Seigal
And they have.
It is basketball with a small ball and 6 foot high rims.
Gambling is almost gone too. Why? The game is now crap. Too easy for too many people. Less skill needed. Low deflection shafts? Tomato stakes on slow cloth. On slow cloth you have to be able to play. Not put. Play.

Fast cloth should be for Lady's play. Slow cloth should be for the men.
Like in golf you have the men and woman tees.
The men really play good on girls cloth.
Don't they?
Nick

So, shorter races, alternating breaks, magic racks, 9 ball racked on the spot, 9 on the break don't count, 3 balls on the break have to go past the side pockets.....NONE of these rules have impacted the game and handicapped the better players.....it's all because of the cloth used today.....gotcha, yeah, you've nailed down the problem with pool today.

PS, forgot to mention everyone using jump cues today as well so no one has to feel like they're in a trap today when their opponent tries to play safe hiding the cue ball behind an object ball.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

Is just that.
Handicapped.
Handicap the world?
Why have pockets?
Hit the rail and shoot again!
There is a reason for everything.
Slow cloth would have to be played roll out.
Really,
The best male players can not show their dominance as easily. They give up too much. It is possible to play at a very high level and display little power. Try that slow roll and spin on slow cloth. Try that two rail reverse follow. 12 foot draw.
You can try. On slow cloth you do or you loose. Because the shot selection of today is useless on the classic equipment.
Diamod tables would be unplayable unless reworked. The pockets you see and the rails are all wrong for the pool everyone played for well ever.
Yes the game is handicapped by the cloth.
No let me rephrase that.
The sport is now less of a sport and more of a game.
Nick

It's never been a sport, there's nothing athletic needed
If buddy hall or Raymond Ceuleman are athletes
I'm Jj watt

 

[PhilosopherKing]

The cream rises to the top... Period.

 

[SJDinPHX]

So, shorter races, alternating breaks, magic racks, 9 ball racked on the spot, 9 on the break don't count, 3 balls on the break have to go past the side pockets.....NONE of these rules have impacted the game and handicapped the better players.....it's all because of the cloth used today.....gotcha, yeah, you've nailed down the problem with pool today.

PS, forgot to mention everyone using jump cues today as well so no one has to feel like they're in a trap today when their opponent tries to play safe hiding the cue ball behind an object ball.

RKC..I'm sure it would much better serve you, to confine your opinions to your field of expertice (ie; table mechanic-ing).. When you try to speak from a player's perspective, regarding the differences in actual playing situations, you are woefully ill-equipped!..Sorry, but most 'C' players, can describe them much more accurately than you ever have!

 

[Dimeball]

Hahahaha!
Another participation trophy thread! Any other excuses for the fact that most are too lazy to practice hard enough to reach a high level? What a joke!
Self entitlement-laziness-can't win-it ain't my fault! The new American way!

 

[a1712]

RKC..I'm sure it would much better serve you, to confine your opinions to your field of expertice (ie; table mechanic-ing).. When you try to speak from a player's perspective, regarding the differences in actual playing situations, you are woefully ill-equipped!..Sorry, but most 'C' players, can describe them much more accurately than you ever have!

Obviously you've never seen Glen play. Go ahead and attack me, your opinion means nothing. Brian.

 

[nick serdula]

There's no problem

So, shorter races, alternating breaks, magic racks, 9 ball racked on the spot, 9 on the break don't count, 3 balls on the break have to go past the side pockets.....NONE of these rules have impacted the game and handicapped the better players.....it's all because of the cloth used today.....gotcha, yeah, you've nailed down the problem with pool today.

PS, forgot to mention everyone using jump cues today as well so no one has to feel like they're in a trap today when their opponent tries to play safe hiding the cue ball behind an object ball.

Pool has been dummied down for television. Grady said at the first televised event when someone yelled one foul ball in hand that will speed things up remarking there goes that.
Well there goes that. I would not like any of this if I set up and sold Diamond tables for a living.
Sold a load of crap. And now the game is less of a sport. For 12 foot tables too. Refrigerated slates?
What else?
You have grown the game maybe but killed a sport.
Nick

 

[mvp]

I think what the op is saying is true with the exception of using women, it takes better players to stroke shitty cloth regardless of gender.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Pool has been dummied down for television. Grady said at the first televised event when someone yelled one foul ball in hand that will speed things up remarking there goes that.
Well there goes that. I would not like any of this if I set up and sold Diamond tables for a living.
Sold a load of crap. And now the game is less of a sport. For 12 foot tables too. Refrigerated slates?
What else?
You have grown the game maybe but killed a sport.
Nick

You're right. You should probably quit pool. And take the people that agree with you.

 

[westcoast]

Back in the day when the cloth was slow the pockets were usually considerably bigger. So it kind of offsets.

Also, since when are many female pros beating male pros? Yes, Karen corr took 2nd at turning stone, but she deserved it. For example, she played some great safes against Earl and completed some tough runouts. True, she got lucky to accidentally hook him in the hill hill game, but she still had to close out.

 

[realkingcobra]

Pool has been dummied down for television. Grady said at the first televised event when someone yelled one foul ball in hand that will speed things up remarking there goes that.
Well there goes that. I would not like any of this if I set up and sold Diamond tables for a living.
Sold a load of crap. And now the game is less of a sport. For 12 foot tables too. Refrigerated slates?
What else?
You have grown the game maybe but killed a sport.
Nick

To tell you the truth, the problem with pool is the pool players, not the game or the equipment. As long as dead money keep controlling the pool tournament's of the world....because there's no REQUIREMENT that a players must pass in order to be called an elite player of this sport, and therefor earn real money as a PROFESSIONAL PLAYER....there will never be any kind of sponsorships brought in to support this game of pool as a real sport....with professionals representing this sport to the world as a whole. Why don't golf handicap every professional golf tournament so that all those that don't stand a chance in hell of making a penny from the prize monies....then have a chance to win money too....just like the Pros do. Why don't bowling handicap the Pros so that the local bowlers that don't stand a chance in hell....can then share in the prize monies. Why can't guys who play hard core foot ball on the weekends with their buddies....put on a Seahawks uniform and play with the big boys on GAME DAY....AND GET PAID A LITTLE FOR THEIR EFFORTS TOO.....JUST LIKE THE PROS DO!!!.....BOTTOM LINE IS BECAUSE NO ONE GIVES A SHIT TO WATCH 3 OF THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WOULD.....have to win their way through a field of stinking cry babies that INSIST they have a RIGHT to play against the best player in the WORLD.....BECAUSE THEY PAID THEIR F&%*ING tournament entry fee just like all their buddies did....and every one of them couch potatoes feel they have a chance to win because they've successful bastardized this sport into the screwed up mess that it's become today....by insisting on shorter races, alternating breaks, magic racks, jump cues....OR THEY WON'T PAY THEIR ENTRY FEE.....AND THEIR WON'T BE ANY TOURNAMENT WITHOUT THEIR BUMASSES.....in case you don't know what that is is called.....a free ride on their money because they CERTAINLY couldn't EARN a spot if there was a skill level test they had to be in the top 128 player list in oder to compete!!!!!