5 SVB US open titles - 5 points

[pt109]

I was interviewing Allen Hopkins for a magazine years ago and he said that winner breaks was terrible. I tell this so JAM wont criticize me because Allen said it and I didnt.

Allen's example he gave me is imagine a football game where a team scores and then they get the ball again....silly isnt it?

I tell what loser breaks does, it almost guarantees that the scores will be closer.

I think I would love it as a fan and hate it if I was a player......

Ken

Ask Allen how much he liked it when Lou Butera ran 150 and out on him in 21 minutes. He didn't get to shoot much that match either! :thumbup:

Straight Pool has been played that way forever. You can lose a match just sitting in your chair. Same way with 9-Ball. This makes Pool unique among sports. There is more pressure each time you get a chance at the table because it may be your last chance. This is why Pool may be the toughest game of all.

Nothing is more exciting imo then seeing a top player string racks and his opponent come to that table and do the same thing to climb back into the match. The second highlight of this year's Open (after Shane's dramatic victory #5) was Jayson winning the last seven games in a row to come back from 10-4 down to win 11-10. The crowd was going crazy!

There are just as many if not more hill-hill matches with winner breaks as there are with alternate breaks. Let the rules guys figure that out and explain it to us.

I don't think Allen was complaining too much about 'winner breaks' when he won a lag on
The Miz in Florida once....finals of a tournament....race to nine.
Allen ran the set out.

If that match was alternate break, I don't think I would even remember that contest.

Don't like fast games?....Don't play fast games.

 

[King T]

That works for you, but...,

A high mileage pool player here...
...if a player lays an eight-pack on me.....I pay him.

Even at one-hole and snooker...I always offered to play winner break.

This "everybody wins a prize" thinking is not catering to excellence.

I've had a fair share of packages put on me and I have never Gambled with an alternate break agreement, but when I match up I'm not playing 10 straight guys I don't know from 5 countries who can all run 8's and when Gamble I can quit and find a better place to put my Money.., adjust the game, the Money or just find a more even opponent.

But once I'm $2000 in coming to a tournament, I'd like to shoot?

One Pocket, ask Efren, TRex, Josh, Rickey, Frost or Alex if they want play out of the break all night.

 

[King T]

Well..,

I can almost guarantee you that SVB doesn't like alternate break, and he's played quite a bit of pool :thumbup:

The Best Breaker in the world, he should want to break every time...,

The Best Player in the history of the game, Efren, might like alternate break based on his breaking skills.

 

[pt109]

One Pocket, ask Efren, TRex, Josh, Rickey, Frost or Alex if they want play out of the break all night.

When it's winner break...and you're not getting any breaks....
...it's time to find a better game.

 

[Lesh]

For the record, I like winner breaks for all games of pool I play. Its a reward for running out or taking advantage of the poor sucker that just got done chopping wood for you. It's supposed to burn... it's gotta hurt worse than getting the bite put on ya by the best in the business (no names here). This is how we learn children. Repeated kicks to the groin.

I also like watching someone on FIIIIIIIIIRRRRE be on fire and blast their way through a 6-pack like a fish in water. So there it is.

Lesh

 

[jasonlaus]

I've had a fair share of packages put on me .

Your words

 

[King T]

For the Cash..,

When it's winner break...and you're not getting any breaks....
...it's time to find a better game.

I Love all the games and for the Gamble its winner break.

I just think that on the professional side there has to be a way to keep Pool similar to other professional sports.

 

[Dimeball]

Ask Allen how much he liked it when Lou Butera ran 150 and out on him in 21 minutes. He didn't get to shoot much that match either! :thumbup:

Straight Pool has been played that way forever. You can lose a match just sitting in your chair. Same way with 9-Ball. This makes Pool unique among sports. There is more pressure each time you get a chance at the table because it may be your last chance. This is why Pool may be the toughest game of all.

Nothing is more exciting imo then seeing a top player string racks and his opponent come to that table and do the same thing to climb back into the match. The second highlight of this year's Open (after Shane's dramatic victory #5) was Jayson winning the last seven games in a row to come back from 10-4 down to win 11-10. The crowd was going crazy!

There are just as many if not more hill-hill matches with winner breaks as there are with alternate breaks. Let the rules guys figure that out and explain it to us.

Jay, you're pool royalty!

 

[Dimeball]

Break format...
All these threads come across as whimpering by the less dedicated and less talented. I still play a lot and still prefer winner break. With that said, I could see how amateur events probably should be alternating break, however, not professional, just as I don't think pro event races should be less than 11 - 13, amateurs are easily deterred and that doesn't promote growth.
For the sake of our children, don't make this about participation and everyone deserves an equal chance, this way of thinking is destroying our future!

 

[BeiberLvr]

I think this would make everyone happy.

Races to 5 (best of 5) format. Lag for the first break.

Player A gets all breaks in first set
Player B gets all breaks in second set
A...third
B...fourth

If it goes to a deciding 5th set, re-lag, and play alternate break.

Each player gets opportunities, and you still have a chance to see some legitimate break and run packages.

 

[smashmouth]

most pro breaks are garbage which is why alternate rarely effects results

 

[Poolshootindon]

I dislike alternate break intensely.
I'll give up the table when I miss.

Can you imagine Mosconi having to give up the table after running 50.....
....maybe you guys think running 526 is unfair to his opponent?

Alexis Arguello was famous for his 7-punch combinations....
...should he be forced to trade shots?

Should Earl not get paid for his 10-pack?

NINE-BALL....IF YOU MISS, YOU LOSE

Apple to Oranges.

 

[9Ballr]

I'm definitely one of those who prefers alternate breaks.
For all the reasons stated before.
Mostly that with winner breaks pool is the only game/sport where the
opponent, whoever didn't lag quite as perfectly, could theoretically never
even stand any chance at all.
And worst of it is that it's not because the guy doesn't stand a chance
because he's just not good enough but it's actually THE RULES that
make is so.......that's just not right.

 

[BeiberLvr]

One thing I'm not sure has been mentioned is the length of the race.

Winner breaks would be better in a longer race (9+). Reason being, it gives a trailing player a better chance to maintain control when mounting a comeback, and the likelihood of running out the set from the lag is extremely rare.

When you have shorter races (7 or under), then I think you have to play alt break as running out the set becomes a bigger possibility.

 

[BmoreMoney]

I guess I was not clear in what I said above. According to an analysis of the probabilities involved, the better player will have exactly, and I mean exactly, the same chance of winning against any level of competition with either format. Let me state the same thing a different way. If Shane is a 74.37% expected winner against Joe under a winner-breaks format, his is a 74.37% expected winner against Joe under an alternate-breaks format. I did not expect this to be the case when I looked at it, but that's how the probabilities work out.

This analysis of course ignores psychological issues like the fabled "momentum" phenomenon in sports.

Bob, I really do not care for alt breaks. As to your #'s I'll just have to take your word on it. Couple thoughts though, as said it is absolutely more exciting for the spectators with winner breaks. With all the talk all the time about how to grow pool and make it more popular then I would say making it as exciting as possible for the spectators is as good as a start as anything. Next, say two players are playing a race to 11 . For whatever the reason player a takes a 9-3 lead over player b in alt rack format. Whatever the actual % is, player a is now a HUGE favorite to win the set. Almost to the point player b has pretty much given up and folks walk away from their seats or tv. Now if it were winner break you still have a match and everyone knows that, and while player a is still gonna be a favorite to win that set you can bet player b has a substantially better chance of mounting a comeback - excitement !

 

[one stroke]

Bob, I really do not care for alt breaks. As to your #'s I'll just have to take your word on it. Couple thoughts though, as said it is absolutely more exciting for the spectators with winner breaks. With all the talk all the time about how to grow pool and make it more popular then I would say making it as exciting as possible for the spectators is as good as a start as anything. Next, say two players are playing a race to 11 . For whatever the reason player a takes a 9-3 lead over player b in alt rack format. Whatever the actual % is, player a is now a HUGE favorite to win the set. Almost to the point player b has pretty much given up and folks walk away from their seats or tv. Now if it were winner break you still have a match and everyone knows that, and while player a is still gonna be a favorite to win that set you can bet player b has a substantially better chance of mounting a comeback - excitement !

Fact is in every sport known to man kind when there's a big early lead and a big comback very few see it , case in point would be Shaws be comback against Ko most people thought it was a forgone conclusion tuned out only the fanatic still watches
The best format is WPA final stage single elimination alternate break it tends to produce more nail biters , it's the gold standard of pool and will also be the true measure of champions in the future



1

 

[jasonlaus]

Fact is in every sport known to man kind when there's a big early lead and a big comback very few see it , case in point would be Shaws be comback against Ko most people thought it was a forgone conclusion tuned out only the fanatic still watches
The best format is WPA final stage single elimination alternate break it tends to produce more nail biters , it's the gold standard of pool and will also be the true measure of champions in the future



1

If it was alt break I might have shut it off, glad it wasn't

 

[one stroke]

If it was alt break I might have shut it off, glad it wasn't

The key word is might

1

 

[BmoreMoney]

Fact is in every sport known to man kind when there's a big early lead and a big comback very few see it , case in point would be Shaws be comback against Ko most people thought it was a forgone conclusion tuned out only the fanatic still watches
The best format is WPA final stage single elimination alternate break it tends to produce more nail biters , it's the gold standard of pool and will also be the true measure of champions in the future



1

Everyone will have their own opinions on this and that's cool. I just find winner breaks much more exciting and believe it or not find it more fair as well. You won = you break. Even when someone gets down it still keeps the, in the game , hence keeping the spectators in the game. Also comparing pool ( 9 ball in particular ) to other sports is not a good comparison. It really is nothing like other sports. You could argue baseball is like 9 ball, the team gets to keep going until they get 3 outs. If the other team doesn't get 3 outs then the other team could score 100 runs without giving the other team a chance. You could also think of make it take it in b ball. Just a pupae examples but as I said comparing pool to other sports really isn't a good comparison.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Any reason this couldn't work and satisfy both sides?

I think this would make everyone happy.

Races to 5 (best of 5) format. Lag for the first break.

Player A gets all breaks in first set
Player B gets all breaks in second set
A...third
B...fourth

If it goes to a deciding 5th set, re-lag, and play alternate break.

Each player gets opportunities, and you still have a chance to see some legitimate break and run packages.