Stroke: Follow Through

justnum

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
How long can contact with the cueball last during a stroke?

Sometimes on a long shot, it feels like my stroke last 3 diamond lengths.

Is that a legal shot?

I aim on the shot, know I will need power and just whale it. To me it feels like my cue stick is driving the cueball for a while on those.
 
you can legally push if the cue ball is frozen to the object ball and you are hitting at an angle. Otherwise, it's not legal. Ya kinda just know if you are pushing or not.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av2DNdWzziA

Thanks Rich, but I still had an issue.

I think I want to discuss break shot like power on regular shots.

In the video above the follow through of the cue at 1:20 makes it look like its pushing the cueball. It has to push the cueball, but the follow through of the cue is what confuses me.

Does a full power stroke push the cueball, legally?

You have helped me understand more about full power strokes versus low power strokes.
 
nataddrho said:
30 miles per hour (fast break) is 44 ft per second.

Contact with the tip lasts roughly 0.001 seconds.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue_tip.html#contact

44 ft x 0.001 seconds = 0.53 inches.

Surprisingly, the tip contact "length" can be as great as 1/2 an inch.

However, it is not close to three diamonds.
Click to expand...

I thought it be possible to perform less traditional shots using abnormal contact time strokes.

The numbers helped me gauged how abnormal they can get.
 
justnum said:
How long can contact with the cueball last during a stroke?

Sometimes on a long shot, it feels like my stroke last 3 diamond lengths.

Is that a legal shot?

I aim on the shot, know I will need power and just whale it. To me it feels like my cue stick is driving the cueball for a while on those.
Click to expand...

How is it that you have been here for 11 years and still ask that question? Or did you get NPR filled up and decided to come to the main forum for more posts?
 
Neil said:
How is it that you have been here for 11 years and still ask that question? Or did you get NPR filled up and decided to come to the main forum for more posts?
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There is always a need to talk fundamentals.
 
justnum said:
There is always a need to talk fundamentals.
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Then why are you talking about cue tip dwell time? Just please tell me that this thread on the tip sticking to the cb is not related to your NPR thread on what to do with the sticky mess after you masturbate. :eek:
 
RichSchultz said:
you can legally push if the cue ball is frozen to the object ball and you are hitting at an angle. Otherwise, it's not legal. Ya kinda just know if you are pushing or not.
Click to expand...
Not exactly, depending which rule set you are playing by. If you are playing by World Standardized Rules, any normal stroke towards a ball the cue ball is frozen to is legal. No official rule set requires "an angle" except maybe for some goofy league rules or local room rules.

Further, under the WSR a "push shot" is a very special kind of foul stroke in which contact is maintained with the cue ball over a long distance. Bring the tip up to the cue ball, but don't quite touch it. Now, without any backstroke at all start bringing your cue forward, kind of sweeping the cue ball along. That is a push shot.

As for the distance over which the tip remains on the ball, that turns out to be roughly three times the length that the tip is compressed. That means if the tip is hard or the shot is soft and the tip is compressed only 1/3 of a millimeter, the tip is on the cue ball for only 1 mm of travel. The number mentioned above about being on the ball for half an inch would also say that the tip (and ferrule and front part of the shaft) compressed by 4 mm. That seems a little high but I guess it's possible.
 
Neil said:
Then why are you talking about cue tip dwell time? Just please tell me that this thread on the tip sticking to the cb :eek:
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When playing pool, I feel the cueball move when I stroke the cue. I think I can control the cueball during that contact. Its like a slight moment, where I feel after hitting the cueball, I can apply an additional directional force during the contact time

I wasn't sure how to describe it until recently.
 
justnum said:
When playing pool, I feel the cueball move when I stroke the cue. I think I can control the cueball during that contact. Its like a slight moment, where I feel after hitting the cueball, I can apply an additional directional force during the contact time

I wasn't sure how to describe it until recently.
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No, you can't. Try thinking about how short a time .001 second is.
 
Neil said:
No, you can't. Try thinking about how short a time .001 second is.
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Soccer, they bend balls.

Baseballs get bent its called a curve.

A billiard ball displays those effects in masse.

I am not talking about extreme curves, I am talking more speed controlled curves with slight to small angles.
 
justnum said:
Soccer, they bend balls.

Baseballs get bent its called a curve.

A billiard ball displays those effects in masse.

I am not talking about extreme curves, I am talking more speed controlled curves with slight to small angles.
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You are adhering to your perception of what is happening as proof for what you think is happening.

It is physically impossible to contract your muscles in any way within 0.001 seconds to cause a variation of outcomes.

Math and physics is a good thing to put your faith in because it can be verified from multiple references and perspectives.
 
nataddrho said:
You are adhering to your perception of what is happening as proof for what you think is happening.

It is physically impossible to contract your muscles in any way within 0.001 seconds to cause a variation of outcomes.

Math and physics is a good thing to put your faith in because it can be verified from multiple references and perspectives.
Click to expand...

In other sports like baseball, some batters hit more home run than others.

Is it just the steroids?

I just wanted to discuss the idea of cue ball control, in terms of using the spin speed to influence the object ball path

The science of banging
 
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erhino41 said:
Is this a swoop stroke conversation???

C'mon, Man!
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No the difference

the swoop stroke seems to imply the direction you roll the cue tip off the cue ball is the main factor

I am talking about the power of the stroke to control the spin of the cue ball.

Like hitting a weak or strong draw shot but in reverse. But instead of controlling the cue ball, the intended effect is to control the object ball.
 
erhino41 said:
Is this a swoop stroke conversation???

C'mon, Man!
Click to expand...

I watched the whole swoop stroke video

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/stroke.html#staying

Thats not what I am talking about.

The video only covered its effect from one distance.

I think I am talking about cut shots, like if you spin the cue ball left, the object ball spins right after contact. I checked the website for cut shot info.

So If I apply a strong left spin on the cueball, how much distance off the line will the object ball actually get after the collision.
 
justnum said:
So If I apply a strong left spin on the cueball, how much distance off the line will the object ball actually get after the collision.
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It depends on the vector and whether you are using a tight or loose grip, but usually with a standard maple shaft you'll get about 1/4" of deflection per every 1/2 diamond. It differs slightly on a 7' table.
 
justnum said:
I watched the whole swoop stroke video

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/stroke.html#staying

Thats not what I am talking about.

The video only covered its effect from one distance.

I think I am talking about cut shots, like if you spin the cue ball left, the object ball spins right after contact. I checked the website for cut shot info.

So If I apply a strong left spin on the cueball, how much distance off the line will the object ball actually get after the collision.
Click to expand...

Spin induced throw is only effective for thick shots, maybe 15 degrees or less. All other cases the lower kinetic coefficient of friction takes over and doesn't really do much. See dr Dave's website for mathematical trials.

(Check my ref on the 15 degrees, I could be wrong)
 
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