Gambling One Pocket with Tight or Big pockets?

haystj

haystj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At the risk of receiving an "internet beating", I wanted to pose a question.

I am gambling (nothing big,,, cheap,, $10-$20 a game) with a friend in one pocket.

He plays much better than I do,,, actually he shoots really well.

He is giving me 10-6, alternating breaks.

I play on Gold Crown IV,,, and all of the tables are the standard 4.75" or 5"....

There is one table that has been double shimmed and I think it is just under 4.5"


Should I be wanting to play him on the tight table or the loose table? I can see advantages to both sides, but want to know what others think.
 
haystj said:
At the risk of receiving an "internet beating", I wanted to pose a question.

I am gambling (nothing big,,, cheap,, $10-$20 a game) with a friend in one pocket.

He plays much better than I do,,, actually he shoots really well.

He is giving me 10-6, alternating breaks.

I play on Gold Crown IV,,, and all of the tables are the standard 4.75" or 5"....

There is one table that has been double shimmed and I think it is just under 4.5"


Should I be wanting to play him on the tight table or the loose table? I can see advantages to both sides, but want to know what others think.
Click to expand...

For sure, 100% the looser pockets help the weaker player. So yes, you should want to play on the 4.75
 
haystj said:
At the risk of receiving an "internet beating", I wanted to pose a question.

I am gambling (nothing big,,, cheap,, $10-$20 a game) with a friend in one pocket.

He plays much better than I do,,, actually he shoots really well.

He is giving me 10-6, alternating breaks.

I play on Gold Crown IV,,, and all of the tables are the standard 4.75" or 5"....

There is one table that has been double shimmed and I think it is just under 4.5"


Should I be wanting to play him on the tight table or the loose table? I can see advantages to both sides, but want to know what others think.
Click to expand...


My personal experience, from occasionally having given up spots like 13-5 and 12-6, is that the weaker player should prefer the looser table. On the easier equipment the weaker player will run and score more balls.

Lou Figueroa
 
I agree

lfigueroa said:
My personal experience, from occasionally having given up spots like 13-5 and 12-6, is that the weaker player should prefer the looser table. On the easier equipment the weaker player will run and score more balls.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

I agree the weaker player is generally not the best at digging balls out of pockets and making that work for him.
 
I appreciate the input, and I believe it is good advice.

I suppose one of the reason I initially asked is because it is rather demoralizing to watch this guy bank balls in from damn near everywhere and then run out. I thought a tighter table would/might limit this.

I guess the obvious answer is play someone different, but I really feel playing this caliber of player is good for my game and I don't mind making donations for the lessons.
 
haystj said:
I appreciate the input, and I believe it is good advice.

I suppose one of the reason I initially asked is because it is rather demoralizing to watch this guy bank balls in from damn near everywhere and then run out. I thought a tighter table would/might limit this.

I guess the obvious answer is play someone different, but I really feel playing this caliber of player is good for my game and I don't mind making donations for the lessons.
Click to expand...

Although these numbers are obviously not scientific, I think this is how it would work on paper:
On the tight table, he is 85% to make any shot, and you are maybe 50% to make any shot
On the the loose table, he is 90% to make any shot but you are now maybe 70% to make any shot.

In practice, his runs and general ball making should look identical except for that occasional rattle that would occur on the tight table. But he probably isn't going to be selling out on flyers anyway so it's not like he will be giving up a TON when he does rattle.

But for you, on the loose table, that missed ball becomes a made ball, and perhaps you get shape a couple more times, more runs that get you to the out ball etc
 
Indeed.... well said all.

However, if the weaker player in one pocket happens to move the cue ball better than their powerful stroking shot making opponent, then the tighter pockets would be to their advantage. Simply out move and pick them apart.

Regards,

Lesh
 
haystj said:
I appreciate the input, and I believe it is good advice.

I suppose one of the reason I initially asked is because it is rather demoralizing to watch this guy bank balls in from damn near everywhere and then run out. I thought a tighter table would/might limit this.

I guess the obvious answer is play someone different, but I really feel playing this caliber of player is good for my game and I don't mind making donations for the lessons.
Click to expand...

If your talking 4 1/2 vs 5" it's not going to make much difference. Now if your talking 4 1/8 I prefer to play better players on the tight table. I've played plenty of very top players and I would never ever ever play them on a 5" table. I played Efren twice on a 5" bucket and he never missed and I didn't win one game. The third time I played Efren I got him on an 4 1/8" pocket and it was a completely different game and outcome.

The way I look at it is than they will never miss on 5" buckets but I will. At 4 1/8" they become human and still shoot at almost everything. When they miss they will easier shots for me. Of course I regularly play on 4 1/8 and miss plenty but I'm more comfortable playing on them against good players
 
Well.....

Given your comment. Id work on my bank game right off the bat. If the bank is a major difference in yours and his game, its obvious that needs to be addressed as well as setting some balls up at various places in the pocket and digging them out. If you can incorporate a dig out and a favorable position then even better. Sounds like theres just a lot of space between you and him and he can pretty much try anything. Since hes the better player hes good at figuring out how to do that and carry the cue ball to a safe position hence the spot youre getting.

haystj said:
I appreciate the input, and I believe it is good advice.

I suppose one of the reason I initially asked is because it is rather demoralizing to watch this guy bank balls in from damn near everywhere and then run out. I thought a tighter table would/might limit this.

I guess the obvious answer is play someone different, but I really feel playing this caliber of player is good for my game and I don't mind making donations for the lessons.
Click to expand...
 
jtompilot said:
I've played plenty of very top players and I would never ever ever play them on a 5" table. I played Efren twice on a 5" bucket and he never missed and I didn't win one game. The third time I played Efren I got him on an 4 1/8" pocket and it was a completely different game and outcome.
Click to expand...



This is exactly what I was thinking (wondering) originally.


Clearly my opponent is no Efren, but the SOB grew up in Europe playing snooker on a 6 X 12,,,,, so you can imagine what he thinks of a silly Gold Crown with monster sized balls.
 
Black-Balled said:
Want me to beat him for you?

Tell him i will take 11-6 and i think we can get him.
Click to expand...

I believe you.

Hopefully that Top Hat one pocket event starts up again we will both be driving up that way to play the Baltimore crew.

I was up there for a one pocket event a while back and I think my friend plays about the same speed as the Piano Man,,,,,, but hell in pool you can never really tell.
 
haystj said:
I believe you.

Hopefully that Top Hat one pocket event starts up again we will both be driving up that way to play the Baltimore crew.

I was up there for a one pocket event a while back and I think my friend plays about the same speed as the Piano Man,,,,,, but hell in pool you can never really tell.
Click to expand...

That is prob the single best pool action room in the area. They will bet it there, but they sre a tough nut to crack, for multiple ressons.
 
billiardthought said:
Although these numbers are obviously not scientific, I think this is how it would work on paper:
On the tight table, he is 85% to make any shot, and you are maybe 50% to make any shot
On the the loose table, he is 90% to make any shot but you are now maybe 70% to make any shot.

In practice, his runs and general ball making should look identical except for that occasional rattle that would occur on the tight table. But he probably isn't going to be selling out on flyers anyway so it's not like he will be giving up a TON when he does rattle.

But for you, on the loose table, that missed ball becomes a made ball, and perhaps you get shape a couple more times, more runs that get you to the out ball etc
Click to expand...

^^^^^^ perfectly explained !!!
 
billiardthought said:
Although these numbers are obviously not scientific, I think this is how it would work on paper:
On the tight table, he is 85% to make any shot, and you are maybe 50% to make any shot
On the the loose table, he is 90% to make any shot but you are now maybe 70% to make any shot.

In practice, his runs and general ball making should look identical except for that occasional rattle that would occur on the tight table. But he probably isn't going to be selling out on flyers anyway so it's not like he will be giving up a TON when he does rattle.

But for you, on the loose table, that missed ball becomes a made ball, and perhaps you get shape a couple more times, more runs that get you to the out ball etc
Click to expand...

Well said sir. I agree. Gives you a bit of an edge as well as you're kinda running a short race with the spot.
 
haystj said:
This is exactly what I was thinking (wondering) originally.


Clearly my opponent is no Efren, but the SOB grew up in Europe playing snooker on a 6 X 12,,,,, so you can imagine what he thinks of a silly Gold Crown with monster sized balls.
Click to expand...

Hay, billoardthought said exactly what I was thinking and he was able to articulate it very well. You shouldn't get in the mindset that tight pockets are gonna slow down top players very much , but it WILL make a LONG day for you and I.
 
Big vs Small Pockets

I use to play a very good player who spotted me (something like 10-7 I believe). In my mind, he didn't out move me by that much, he out shot me. We switched to playing one pocket on a snooker table and I got the better of him. Anyway, this experience goes against conventional wisdom that tight pockets favor the better player.
 
BmoreMoney said:
Hay, billoardthought said exactly what I was thinking and he was able to articulate it very well. You shouldn't get in the mindset that tight pockets are gonna slow down top players very much , but it WILL make a LONG day for you and I.
Click to expand...

yeah, I agree with this (you).

I liked his statistics, and I think he is correct.
 
fjk said:
I use to play a very good player who spotted me (something like 10-7 I believe). In my mind, he didn't out move me by that much, he out shot me. We switched to playing one pocket on a snooker table and I got the better of him. Anyway, this experience goes against conventional wisdom that tight pockets favor the better player.
Click to expand...

Logic error. Your situation's specific- he only out shot you- does not apply to situations where the "better than" includes moving skill.
 
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