What is the Taiwanese Secret to Success?

PocketSpeed11

AzB Long Member
Silver Member
The Taiwanese population is less than a quarter the population of the pool-crazy Philippines, yet Taiwan seems to have a stronger group of elite players than any other region, country, or continent.

My gut feeling is that they practice (and by this I don't mean practice play) far more than the players from any other region. What put Wu on the fast-track to being a 2 time world champion at only 16 years old. There is no way practice play alone would get him there. Does anybody have greater insight on this topic?
 
You really don't need a lot of insight for this one :smile:

- They have a lot of time
- They dont need to work strange jobs demanding every ounce of will from them to be able to life.
- They dont balance out the rest of their life (partner, kids, ....)
- They play the game in any and all shapes and forms
- They need to be good by skill because they cant afford good equipment
- They need to be inventive because tables are in all kinds of states

Cheers,
M
 
You really don't need a lot of insight for this one :smile:

- They have a lot of time
- They dont need to work strange jobs demanding every ounce of will from them to be able to life.
- They dont balance out the rest of their life (partner, kids, ....)
- They play the game in any and all shapes and forms
- They need to be good by skill because they cant afford good equipment
- They need to be inventive because tables are in all kinds of states

Cheers,
M

Thanks for the reply, but I did't think the Taiwanese are known for playing on bad equipment or being poor. Might you be confusing them with Filipinos? And if this was the case with the Taiwanese as well, then why is their elite group of players stronger than the Philippines elite group of players? Pool is less popular in Taiwan and the population is less than a quarter than that of the Philippines. Based on the reasons you gave, the Philippines should far and away have a stronger group of elite players.
 
You really don't need a lot of insight for this one :smile:

- They have a lot of time
- They dont need to work strange jobs demanding every ounce of will from them to be able to life.
- They dont balance out the rest of their life (partner, kids, ....)
- They play the game in any and all shapes and forms
- They need to be good by skill because they cant afford good equipment
- They need to be inventive because tables are in all kinds of states

Cheers,
M

Have u been to taiwan ?

I've worked there for 5 years and i can confirmed first hand what u say is totally not true.
I used to be a big big fan of the pinoy style ( free and easy exhibition razzle dazzle play ) until i move to taiwan for work.
After moving there and bringing my ego along thinking im gonna kick some asses , i got my ass handed to me and my ego badly bruised.. including a 13 yr old middle school gal.. shit.. n boy their stroke really look ugly compared to my long flowing smooth filipino stroke ,that really hurt n the worst part i dont understand why.

The 70 YEAR OLD house pro at the pool hall i went in the country side knew i was a foreigner expatriate so he kinda befriended me and took me under his wing n explain to me why im getting killed.
Instantly he could tell i was taught the game by filipino players n i told him my idol is Efren and he's the reason why i even picked up a pool cue which is true.
He smiled instantly and tells me efren's the greatest player that ever live but unfortunately not everyone can be as talented as him , playing instinctively and figuring his way around by his feel.

He told me , the way they play here is strictly based on logic and natural physicss in which everything can be explained so they try to keep it simple, stupid and textbook fundementals.
When many pinoys taught me how to play when i first started , they wld demonstrate but struggle at explaining ( not becoz of language ) and they wld often told me to " feel " it.
If u watch the tar video where busty explain his aimimg technique, u wld understand what i mean, he was using swerve to throw an object ball in but he doesnt realize that simply because hes learned n played BY FEEL n nothing wrong w that, still one of the best players but thats the pinoy style

He gave me a very insight comparison , the rails are a filipino's best friend but it is the worst enemy of the taiwanese
I was shocked becoz i love playing rails to get shape.
He explained , rails r very unpredictable n plays different from table to table and it is often the part which causes the unforce error.
For example , a diamond often banks short n brunswick banks long.

He then proceeded to run a simple layout of 9 ball on the table just using pure centre axis centre ball , follow stun draw using minimal rail contact, and potting 5 balls without touching a rail by being on the right side.
He said see, it may not be as beautiful as em pinoys but it definitely decreases our margin of error and increases our run-out percentages.

Over the years there, players ( pros n recreation ) are extremely dedicated to the game n beginners are taught to start with shooting 100 stop shots on 3 inch pockets , yes 3 inch and do drills using to pure centre asix cue ball ( no english ) before they are allowed to play.
When they start playing , they usually start with 14.1 to get their basics right before playing 9 ball

In schools , students are drilled day after day to understand the fundementals n natural cue ball path and 13 yr old boys n gals are already mastering playing shape for 3rd ball and could run 3 to r rails natural call ball path at ease n taught to jump lol yes
It is not surprising for a 13 yr old kid to break n run 3-5 racks there.
And to answer your question , wu used to grow up at his grandmother's pool hall and i saw him when he was 12 , he was gambling ring game 9 ball with a group of pro's n retired pros on his grandmother dime, yes thats how good he was already.
A friend of mine even told me he deliberately practiced with dirty balls n off the air-con to simulate tough conditions where the balls wouldnt move easily, working on his stroke.

And on the contrary to the philipines , taiwanese respect good equipments u can find well -maintained pristine brunswick gold crown everywhere ( sadly no diamonds ) and tables are kept in tip-top conditions, being cleaned after every set n cloth changed every 3-4 months, they basically take extreme good care of their equipments.

And by the way ,the 70 yr old house pro i talked about still runs over 100 in straight pool n runs 3 pack at ease regularly, he used to coach Yang chin hsun and wu chia ching when they were young

Sadly i no longer work in taiwan and i miss my pool friends dearly and the time i spent playing pool were the best of my life , everyone so friendly and they are keen to share their skills and knowledge so i evolved quickly and currently an A player in my country.
Feel free to ask anymore questions n i"ll try my best to answer em with the best of my knowledge :)
 
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Thanks for the reply, but I did't think the Taiwanese are known for playing on bad equipment or being poor. Might you be confusing them with Filipinos?

Whoops, mind wasn't awake yet.
Yes, my post got them confused with Filipinos.

As for Taiwanese - fundamentals and excellence is demanded (drills, technique, concentration, text book approaches, planning), time is given (training, pool as a school sport!), opportunitiy is taken (schools!) and supported (schools again).

Cheers!
 
Have u been to taiwan ?

I've worked there for 5 years and i can confirmed first hand what u say is totally not true.
I used to be a big big fan of the pinoy style ( free and easy exhibition razzle dazzle play ) until i move to taiwan for work.
After moving there and bringing my ego along thinking im gonna kick some asses , i got my ass handed to me and my ego badly bruised.. including a 13 yr old middle school gal.. shit.. that really hurt n the worst part i dont understand why.

The 70 YEAR OLD house pro at the pool hall i went in the country side knew i was a foreigner expatriate so he kinda befriended me and took me under his wing n explain to me why im getting killed.
Instantly he could tell i modelled my game emulating filipino players n i told him my idol is Efren and he's the reason why i even picked up a pool cue which is true.
He smiled instantly and tells me efren's the greatest player that ever live but unfortunately not everyone can be as talented as him , playing instinctively and figuring his way around by his feel.

He told me , the way of play here is everything goes by logic and natural physicss so they to keep it simple, stupid and textbook fundementals.
When many pinoys taught me how to play wheni first started , they wld demonstrate but struggle at explaining ( not becoz of language ) and they wld often told me to " feel " it.
If u watch the tar video where busty explain his aimimg technique, u wld understand what i mean, he was using serve to throw a call ball in but he doesnt realize that simply because hes playing BY FEEL n nothing wrong w that, still one of the best players but thats the pinoy style

He gave me a very insight comparison , the rails are a filipino's best friend but it is the worst enemy of the taiwanese
I was shocked becoz i love playing rails to get shape.
He explained , rails plays unpredictably different from table to table and it is often the part which causes the unforce error.

He then proceeded to run a simple layout of 9 ball on the table using pure centre axis , follow stun draw using minimal rail contact.
He said see, it may not be as beautiful as em pinoys but it decreases our margin of error and increases our run-out percentages.

Over the years there, players ( pros n recreation ) are extremely dedicated to the game n beginners are taught to start with shooting 100 stop shots on 3 inch pockets , yes 3 inch and do drills using to pure centre asix cue ball ( no english ) before they are allowed to play.
When they start playing , they usually start with 14.1 to get their basics right before playing 9 ball

In schools , students are drilled day after day to understand the fundementals n natural cue ball path and 13 yr old boys n gals are already mastering playing shape for 3rd ball and could run 3 to r rails natural call ball path at ease.
It is not surprising for a 13 yr old kid to break n run 3-5 racks there.
And to answer your question , wu used to grow up at his grandmother's pool hall and i saw him when he was 12 , he was gambling ring game 9 ball with a group of pro's n retired pros on his grandmother dime, yes thats how good he was already.
A friend of mine even told me he deliberately practiced with dirty balls n off the air-con to simulate tough conditions where the balls wouldnt move easily, working on his stroke.

And on the contrary to the philipines , taiwanese respect good equipments u can find well -maintained pristine brunswick gold crown everywhere ( sadly no diamonds ) and tables are kept in tip-top conditions, being cleaned after every set n cloth changed every 3-4 months, they basically take extreme good care of their equipments.

And by the way ,the 70 yr old house pro i talked about still runs over 100 in straight pool n runs 3 pack at ease regularly, he used to coach Yang chin hsun and wu chia ching when they were young

Sadly i no longer work in taiwan and i miss my pool friends dearly and the time i spent playing pool were the best of my life , everyone so friendly and they are keen to share their skills and knowledge so i evolved quickly and currently an A player in my country.
Feel free to ask anymore questions n i"ll try my best to answer em with the best of my knowledge :)

What aiming systems do they use :)
 
What aiming systems do they use :)


Haha i think ya're joking but i will still answet that

Their aiming system which they rely on heavily is called practicing shot-making on 3 inch pockets n a thousand of em too often in their teens, making a hundred long straight in shots daily are usually the norm

Every pool hall usually have about 4 tables near the front with real tight pockets that the better players play on n yes they still break n run on those.
First 2 nearest to the counter are usually the tightest abt 3 inch and the other 2 usually 3.5 inch.

Also Chang J.L once did share to me that he does use a little english on rail shots and especially the game ball to spin it in for higher percentages .
I later realize he is talking about TOUCH OF INSIDE TOI.

I hope that answers ur questions :)
 
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Haha i think ya're joking but i will still answet that

Their aiming system which they rely on heavily is called practicing shot-making on 3 inch pockets n a thousand of em too often in their teens, making a hundred long straight in shots daily are usually the norm

Every pool hall usually have about 4 tables near the front with real tight pockets that the better players play on n yes they still break n run on those.
First 2 nearest to the counter are usually the tightest abt 3 inch and the other 2 usually 3.5 inch.

Also Chang J.L once did share to me that he does use a little english on rail shots and especially the game ball to spin it in for higher percentages .
I later realize he is talking about TOUCH OF INSIDE TOI.

I hope that answers ur questions :)

Thank you :)
 
For a very long time the Tiawanese dominated Little league Baseball World Series- same concepts : rock solid fundamentals, dedication, early onset training and of course the discipline to carry practiced learning over to competitive execution without adding too much emotion to the process.
 
I'm Taiwanese-American. In addition to what has been mentioned, we fundamentally consider billiards a sport and thus treat it as such, with structure, discipline, and logic. Ask an American adolescent if pool is a sport; you'll most likely get a blank stare. When an exacting discipline such as pool gets the appropriate respect and diligence it commands in a country, that nation becomes a "powerhouse." Americans do this with baseball and basketball and thus reign in the world (esp basketball). The point about Pinoys (and others as well) being more "feel-oriented" is also very important. Chinese people tend to be very cerebral, bringing analytics into all they do. It's no accident that Taiwan was one of the original 4 Asian Tiger countries that burst onto the high-tech scene in the 80s. These are intellectually-minded people who brought their book smarts to the game, and in a sport where physicality matters very little, have earned great dividends. That's my take at least.
 
The Taiwanese population is less than a quarter the population of the pool-crazy Philippines, yet Taiwan seems to have a stronger group of elite players than any other region, country, or continent.

My gut feeling is that they practice (and by this I don't mean practice play) far more than the players from any other region. What put Wu on the fast-track to being a 2 time world champion at only 16 years old. There is no way practice play alone would get him there. Does anybody have greater insight on this topic?

Training for hours at a time on basics in structured classes. There is just no failure accepted, the culture is based on pleasing others and doing things as you are told to. Try to get a US kid to practice a simple stroke 3 hours a day for a month and see what happens LOL

Have you seen some of the Asian kids they put on YouTube for music? You don't play guitar or pool like a pro at young ages loking like a robot unless your parents and the state took you out of school and locked you in a room for 10 hours a day playing notes.

Sure all the players play well, but compared to US and many European players, their pool game (like other things they do) look more like just someone connecting the dots instead of painting a Picasso.

That is why the manufacturing is so good, but the first steps had to be copied from other countries, Japan has quality down for a reason, and Taiwan and China can do the same if they looked past costs. You can't crank out radios at $5 each at wholesale without rushing through testing and using cheaper parts.
 
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Training for hours at a time on basics in structured classes. There is just no failure accepted, the culture is based on pleasing others and doing things as you are told to. Try to get a US kid to practice a simple stroke 3 hours a day for a month and see what happens LOL

Have you seen some of the Asian kids they put on YouTube for music? You don't play guitar or pool like a pro at young ages loking like a robot unless your parents and the state took you out of school and locked you in a room for 10 hours a day playing notes.

Sure all the players play well, but compared to US and many European players, their pool game (like other things they do) look more like just someone connecting the dots instead of painting a Picasso.

That is why the manufacturing is so good, but the first steps had to be copied from other countries, Japan has quality down for a reason, and Taiwan and China can do the same if they looked past costs. You can't crank out radios at $5 each at wholesale without rushing through testing and using cheaper parts.


Lol it aint that bad, those u described sounded more like a china communist program but taiwan democratic system is totally different.

These kids practice not because they are forced to , basketball n baseball are the most popular games there which can be used in their credential to gain entry to prestigious universities.
Pool on the other hand is also a dying sport and its not like before when it was really popular during the 2000's when Chao won the world 9ball.
These kids practice because they love the game and would like to improve and from my conversation with them , they clearly knew that going pro wasnt really an option for em due to the low prize money.

Besides, an important aspect of pool is creativity n flexibility and being able to use different strokes to move the cue ball.

You dont win so many world titles being so stiff and having a rigid mind, on the other hand i think the taiwanese players have proved that they are excellent thinkers and are able to execute well under pressure.
Big ko has shown that on numerous big occasions.

And regarding what u say between a taiwanese kid spending 3 hours a day on a straight in short vs an american kid.
I think its a difference in culture.
Taiwanese kids are taught the value in respect n love for the game n being incalcated that you can only see improvement if u r willing to put in the hard work.

Makes sense , if u truly love n respect the game , wouldn that motivate you to keep practicing to get better irregardless of the monetary rewards that comes with it, those hours that u put in will pay off eventually.

As for american kids in pool, education is the only way to go about it in teaching them the value of hard work n fundementals.

I played D2 college basketball while studying in the states for years, n i used to go workout in the summer n i see middle school kids working for hours on their jump shots and free throws for hours.

That clearly shows the discrepancies in the value of both sports.

The kids know if they work hard , they might be able to make it to the Nba n sign a 7 figure contract doing something they love to do.


You shld make a trip to taiwan and allow your kid to practice with em n believ me , u n ur kid will truly enjoy the positive environment where gambling is not really encouraged .
 
Sounds like a bit much?

The Taiwanese players play good and yes its a different style, but The Euro boys still win their fair share, SVB aint doing to bad and if anybody trys to tell me that the Pilipino fellas cant win anymore or are going to be dominated, I'd have to disagree.
 
Training for hours at a time on basics in structured classes. There is just no failure accepted, the culture is based on pleasing others and doing things as you are told to. Try to get a US kid to practice a simple stroke 3 hours a day for a month and see what happens LOL

Have you seen some of the Asian kids they put on YouTube for music? You don't play guitar or pool like a pro at young ages loking like a robot unless your parents and the state took you out of school and locked you in a room for 10 hours a day playing notes.

Sure all the players play well, but compared to US and many European players, their pool game (like other things they do) look more like just someone connecting the dots instead of painting a Picasso.

That is why the manufacturing is so good, but the first steps had to be copied from other countries, Japan has quality down for a reason, and Taiwan and China can do the same if they looked past costs. You can't crank out radios at $5 each at wholesale without rushing through testing and using cheaper parts.

I'm sure the US can keep painting Picasso and let the world see what it's worth :).

The only example of current tremendous success in American pool is SVB and we all know how he gets there.
 
Training for hours at a time on basics in structured classes. There is just no failure accepted, the culture is based on pleasing others and doing things as you are told to. Try to get a US kid to practice a simple stroke 3 hours a day for a month and see what happens LOL

Have you seen some of the Asian kids they put on YouTube for music? You don't play guitar or pool like a pro at young ages loking like a robot unless your parents and the state took you out of school and locked you in a room for 10 hours a day playing notes.

Sure all the players play well, but compared to US and many European players, their pool game (like other things they do) look more like just someone connecting the dots instead of painting a Picasso.

That is why the manufacturing is so good, but the first steps had to be copied from other countries, Japan has quality down for a reason, and Taiwan and China can do the same if they looked past costs. You can't crank out radios at $5 each at wholesale without rushing through testing and using cheaper parts.
Have you seen Chang Yu Lung play? Look at Taiwan's 2015 WCOP championship run and some of the shots he made and say they're not capable of "painting Picassos" again. Do Taiwanese have more boring styles than others? Yes. But that lends itself to consistency. American players are creative but in many pressure situations that's just an excuse for being messy

Your last paragraph especially is not representative of Taiwan. The only leading manufacturing industry in Taiwan is semiconductors and computer chips; that sexy Intel chip on your computer probably comes from Taiwan, or a portion of it. China is the leader of cheap pump and dump manufacturing. We have quality in Taiwan ;)
 
Have you seen Chang Yu Lung play? Look at Taiwan's 2015 WCOP championship run and some of the shots he made and say they're not capable of "painting Picassos" again. Do Taiwanese have more boring styles than others? Yes. But that lends itself to consistency. American players are creative but in many pressure situations that's just an excuse for being messy

Your last paragraph especially is not representative of Taiwan. The only leading manufacturing industry in Taiwan is semiconductors and computer chips; that sexy Intel chip on your computer probably comes from Taiwan, or a portion of it. China is the leader of cheap pump and dump manufacturing. We have quality in Taiwan ;)

I was not really saying anything bad about Taiwan (or China quality for that matter since it can be very good given the right requirements and time). I know for guitars and many other industries, Taiwan made is preferable to China made every time. The Epiphone Gibson guitars for example, have plenty of desirable years where they were made in Taiwan and are really only second to the US models. But once again, based on costs and time spent. If Taiwan or China used the same quality parts and were allowed to spend the same time on polishing the details, I doubt the US versions would be better.

The training they get though, along with pretty much every Asian area country, is very standardized and how they learn is the same. There is a good show about magic that Penn and Teller did where they visited China, the magicians there were taught in a classroom by the dozens, and the trick they did was the same exact one, done in the same exact way as everyone else. I guess that is again lumping Taiwan in with China but honestly I don't see much difference in how the culture is as far as training/teaching things.

I will look up that player you mentioned, thanks.
 
As we know, the instruction programs and facilities are exceptional in Taiwan, but that's only some of the story.

Four of the Taiwanese superstars, meaning Ko Pin Yi, JL Chang, Ko Ping Chung, YL Chang are following in the footsteps of both Asia's best and Europe's best. That is, they are testing themselves as often as possible in all the toughest events on the world pool calendar.

This is the secret of all the great ones. Only a few of the top players who live in America travel to the big events. Take a look at Jayson Shaw. He's been a fine player for years, sharing the Joss Tour stage with Mike Dechaine and holding his own in some of America's premier events. This year, however, was his breakout year. What was different about this year was that Jayson regularly traveled to both Euro-tour events and WPA ranking points events. No US based player, SVB included, played more overseas events this year than Jayson. By hooking up with the superstars of world pool so many times this year, Jayson brought his game to the next level. In other words, he did it the way most of the great players, including the Taiwanese, have done it.

The secret is testing your game against the world's most elite as often as possible. The Taiwanese are following in the footprints of the Filipinos, so many of whom followed the same formula.
 
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