Now deceased cuemaker Kevin Varney (a personal friend) had a saying on his sig here on AZ: "Cash ain't heavy, carry some!".
Roll-out ( 2 fouls, ball in hand )
- Thread starter Michael Andros
- Start date
Now deceased cuemaker Kevin Varney (a personal friend) had a saying on his sig here on AZ: "Cash ain't heavy, carry some!".
:grin:On top of everything else so well stated here is the absolute farce of what many call "matching up" today. You get somebody two games stuck and they start the "we gotta adjust" crying game. There have been times when i didn't start playing until i was a SET down much less a couple of measly games. So many players now abide completely with the " firing toothpicks at a lumberyard" motto. What happened to self-confidence and a little heart? I'm sure there are fierce, take-no-prisoner players out there and i tip my hat to their heart and ability.
I think a lot ( and boy, will I get shelled for THIS ) of it these days is the philosophy of 'Entitlement". Many players seem to feel they deserve to win before they ever hit the first ball. And if they don't, then something is "wrong" and needs to be fixed. If that makes any sense.
Its the "Everybody gets a gold star" bs they sling in schools today. Gotta be careful not to piss-off Little Johnny for fear he might go postal. Such a crock.
I played nothing but push-out for 17 years, stopped playing for about 10 years from 82 to 92, and when I got back into the game Texas Express was the rule.
Overall Texas Express is the superior game, because it rewards more than just shot making skills. But I'd make two adjustments:
First, use the "Grady" rule where ALL safes have to be CALLED. 90% of the luck in 9-ball isn't lucking balls in, it's missing a shot and accidentally leaving your opponent snookered. Under the "Grady" rule if you don't CALL a safe and you snooker your opponent, he has the option of making you shoot again. That would eliminate THE worst part of Texas Express 9-ball.
I've heard people reply "What about 2-way shots?" Well, maybe allow one of those a game, like the one extension a game rule in major tournaments on the TV tables. But the real point should be to eliminate the lucky safe shot.
Second, I'd ban jump sticks. Really skilled jump shot artists can jump with their regular cues, and the very best players like Efren almost never jump rather than kick. Jump cues are just a lazy way of playing, while creative kick shots are an art form.
Overall Texas Express is the superior game, because it rewards more than just shot making skills. But I'd make two adjustments:
First, use the "Grady" rule where ALL safes have to be CALLED. 90% of the luck in 9-ball isn't lucking balls in, it's missing a shot and accidentally leaving your opponent snookered. Under the "Grady" rule if you don't CALL a safe and you snooker your opponent, he has the option of making you shoot again. That would eliminate THE worst part of Texas Express 9-ball.
I've heard people reply "What about 2-way shots?" Well, maybe allow one of those a game, like the one extension a game rule in major tournaments on the TV tables. But the real point should be to eliminate the lucky safe shot.
Second, I'd ban jump sticks. Really skilled jump shot artists can jump with their regular cues, and the very best players like Efren almost never jump rather than kick. Jump cues are just a lazy way of playing, while creative kick shots are an art form.
The Grady rule does eliminate a lot of the blind-luck aspect of one-foul but i hate losing 2way shots. As for the jump cues, well, in thirty years of watching Efren whip the world's a^* i've NEVER seen the man jump a ball.
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Fantasy: ( After kid finishes 10th in a race with 10 kids )"Congratulations Johnny! You're the lasstttt winner!"
Reality: ( After kid finishes 10th in a race with 10 kids ) "You lost, Johnny. You're a loossserrrrrrrr, Johnny!"
If you played RO that long, then I respect your view. However, it still doesn't address the ( to me ) cowardly act of not taking the shot you just played shape for and ducking instead.
Lol. Efren jumped 1 ball at the US Open on the tv table and everyone went nutz!
Nobody knew he had a jump cue! Never saw it again.
Wish I could remember who he played, I would look it up.
Pushout forever
Nobody knew he had a jump cue! Never saw it again.
Wish I could remember who he played, I would look it up.
Pushout forever
I'm betting Efren or Parica, either one, would LOVE playing RO. The way all those Filipinos think their way around the table? They'd be sold for life. And they play Duck and Cover better than anyone who's ever played the game!
PUSHOUT FOREVER! :grin-square: :grin-square: :grin-square:
Why should you be allowed to dink a ball ( takes NO talent or skill ) and I have to kick at it??? Answer: that is the rule to speed up the game, NOT make it better!
I was in Beenies room when he and the Jansco brothers cane up with 1-foul.
I believe in 1970. The original rules were: spot all balls, scratch on the break,
BIH behind the line ( spot all balls ), scratch on the 9, BIH behind the line
( if 9 is behind line, SPOT the 9 )
The Jansco's wanted to get the tourney over so they could 'get to gamblin'.
Beenie wanted to run 3 sessions a day to make more money.
1-foul was NEVER ment to be a gamblin game, and 99% of cash games
remained pushout during the 70's.
I don't know when 1-foul took over as I didn't play from 1980-1989.
When I came back it was 1-foul and super fast cloth. Most rooms had 4 3/4
pockets ( give or take ) and the game was easier ( I'm told to get more
people to play pool and make more balls ( without having a stroke ).
Then came the leagues, when they turned pool into bowling !
I'm going to Vegas to play Freddy some ping-pong! Lol
Pushout forever
Originally Posted by Taxi
I played nothing but push-out for 17 years, stopped playing for about 10 years from 82 to 92, and when I got back into the game Texas Express was the rule.
Overall Texas Express is the superior game, because it rewards more than just shot making skills. But I'd make two adjustments:
First, use the "Grady" rule where ALL safes have to be CALLED. 90% of the luck in 9-ball isn't lucking balls in, it's missing a shot and accidentally leaving your opponent snookered. Under the "Grady" rule if you don't CALL a safe and you snooker your opponent, he has the option of making you shoot again. That would eliminate THE worst part of Texas Express 9-ball.
I've heard people reply "What about 2-way shots?" Well, maybe allow one of those a game, like the one extension a game rule in major tournaments on the TV tables. But the real point should be to eliminate the lucky safe shot.
Second, I'd ban jump sticks. Really skilled jump shot artists can jump with their regular cues, and the very best players like Efren almost never jump rather than kick. Jump cues are just a lazy way of playing, while creative kick shots are an art form.
I said I like Texas Express better, and the "Grady rule" doesn't allow for pushouts if you snooker yourself. It only says that if your opponent snookers you BY LUCK, you have the option to make him shoot again. The "Grady rule" is a variant of Texas Express, not the Old School 2-foul pushout game.
I played nothing but push-out for 17 years, stopped playing for about 10 years from 82 to 92, and when I got back into the game Texas Express was the rule.
Overall Texas Express is the superior game, because it rewards more than just shot making skills. But I'd make two adjustments:
First, use the "Grady" rule where ALL safes have to be CALLED. 90% of the luck in 9-ball isn't lucking balls in, it's missing a shot and accidentally leaving your opponent snookered. Under the "Grady" rule if you don't CALL a safe and you snooker your opponent, he has the option of making you shoot again. That would eliminate THE worst part of Texas Express 9-ball.
I've heard people reply "What about 2-way shots?" Well, maybe allow one of those a game, like the one extension a game rule in major tournaments on the TV tables. But the real point should be to eliminate the lucky safe shot.
Second, I'd ban jump sticks. Really skilled jump shot artists can jump with their regular cues, and the very best players like Efren almost never jump rather than kick. Jump cues are just a lazy way of playing, while creative kick shots are an art form.
I said I like Texas Express better, and the "Grady rule" doesn't allow for pushouts if you snooker yourself. It only says that if your opponent snookers you BY LUCK, you have the option to make him shoot again. The "Grady rule" is a variant of Texas Express, not the Old School 2-foul pushout game.
Taxi - I get it. I do. I see exactly what you're saying. Again, one of my biggest issues with 1 foul is, someone plays lousy shape and has a difficult shot? And then they simply duck and get rewarded for it by making me kick 3 rails? That is BS, plain and simple. You play it, you shoot it. Period. That's my view on it.
Here is the bottom line: You don't need the approval of a tournament director, league operator, room owner, or some national organization. You only need to sell it to the guy you want to play. You decide how you want to play. Push-out is for people who like to bet their cash. PLAY BY THE GAME!
What he said.
Yes...
I have an old Accustats match between Earl and Kim (@ Sands, I think) and they're playing the old rules... and they played three sets! Kim got him...:thumbup:
I have an old Accustats match between Earl and Kim (@ Sands, I think) and they're playing the old rules... and they played three sets! Kim got him...:thumbup:
What year was that, Runner? Any idea?