Barbecued Maple shafts

[youngstownkid]

In an effort to avoid any trademark problems, this has been renamed. I’m also now able to give some even better deals. Those who bought from me with the previous prices will get an automatic $30 discount their next order.

Barbecued Billiard Supply pricing:

1”x1”x30” shaft squares:
$30 each when you buy 4 plain squares. (Minimum order)
$25 each if you buy 12.
$20 each if you buy 20 or more.

Special limited time offer:
I have three boxes of 3 plain and a random figured already packaged up. $120/box or take all 3 for $340. Deal expires once these 3 boxes are sold.

Please call or text me anytime with your orders or questions, 724-699-6124.

 

[CuesDirectly]

In an effort to avoid any trademark problems, this has been renamed. I’m also now able to give some even better deals. Those who bought from me with the previous prices will get an automatic $30 discount their next order.

Barbecued Billiard Supply pricing:

1”x1”x30” shaft squares:
$30 each when you buy 4 plain squares. (Minimum order)
$25 each if you buy 12.
$20 each if you buy 20 or more.

If you want figured blanks instead of plain...you can choose Curly or Birdseye

+$5 each to upgrade to AAA
+$10 each to upgrade to AAAA
+$15 each to upgrade to AAAAA
+$20 each to upgrade to Master grade, pictured below.

Special limited time offer:
I have 4 boxes of 3 plain and a random figured already packaged up. $120/box or take all 4 for $400. Deal expires once these 4 boxes are sold.

Please call or text me anytime with your orders or questions, 724-699-6124.

Would you mind telling us who's grading system you used?

Can you post it?

Thanks.

 

[youngstownkid]

These are the various grade pieces in both Birdseye and Curly.

 

[CuesDirectly]

These are the AAA, AAAA, and AAAAA pieces in both Birdseye and Curly.

Are you aware that Grading standards for wood have been in place since

BEFORE THE INVENT OF THE CAMERA?

I just gave you 24 hours in hopes that YOU would investigate this, realize WHAT you have then simply ask the mod to ERASE this thread.

Thread is still here, hmmm, you doubled down.

CAVEAT EMPTOR.


There have been calls behind the scenes here at AZBiliards, calls for standards, listing this as AAAAA and then Master grade beyond that? (For the first time, I now admit, I may be a believer in the standards.)

That would make these the best shafts in the world, when grain runs on one side and off the other, it should never be made into a shaft, END OF STORY.

With me? Two simple choices, ask us what makes a great shaft OR get angry at the message and block me.

 

[PRED]

The figure is less than "A" and the grain is all over the place. Have you actually made a shaft from this stock?

 

[youngstownkid]

...

I apologize that this upset you so much that you felt the need for a public display. I did not come up with this on my own, but am using what was given to me. No, I will not disclose who from. I will research this at your request. If you would like to berate me further I urge you to call me. If you would like to place an order, please call someone else.

 

[captainjko]

What you are seeing here is an experienced cue builder pointing out the much lower than advertised quality wood, to help prevent someone of lesser knowledge, from making a mistake and buying the wood that should not be used for a shaft....

 

[youngstownkid]

The figure is less than "A" and the grain is all over the place. Have you actually made a shaft from this stock?

I have some graded maple curly and Birdseye maybe a couple dozen) that I bought from a previous Cuemaker that was labeled AAA and I did not notice a reason to question the grades I was given. I do apologize that I am new at this. I made a shaft from the plain stock that I turned down in a day just to try it out. I’ve been playing with it ever since. The master grades I’m turning slowly, so they are not ready. The others I ordered so had a picture to go along with the grades, and figured I’d use them in a deal of some sort. As far as the grain, my understanding is that the treatment this has gone through makes the grain direction less important. How much less I do not know. Looks like I have more to learn before I can do my own grading, which I was trying to avoid, but looks unavoidable. I do think there is a lot of unknown regarding alternative maple and I’m not pretending to have the answers at this point. I would like to hear from those who have actually bought from me...

 

[youngstownkid]

Also I spent $85 on a very figured shaft blank from somebody else who sells this and the grain is nowhere near straight. They did not use grading that I recall so maybe I shouldn’t either.

 

[CuesDirectly]

I apologize that this upset you so much that you felt the need for a public display. I did not come up with this on my own, but am using what was given to me. No, I will not disclose who from. I will research this at your request. If you would like to berate me further I urge you to call me. If you would like to place an order, please call someone else.

It didn't upset me, it upset you. No apologies needed at all, I really was trying to help.

I suggested you start a thread on what makes a great shaft, your anger prevented you from getting that far.

Anger can get fingers cut off if you're not careful, pay attention to the cuts, not the anger.

Smile and ask questions, that's what this place is for.

Thanks for your understanding.

 

[youngstownkid]

It didn't upset me, it upset you. No apologies needed at all, I really was trying to help.

Yes it did upset me a little. Must have been your delivery. If you’re intention was to help, then you did. Thanks for bringing the grading issue to my attention. I’ve added some asterisks and a note that hopefully makes thing acceptable to you for now. I did not set out to become a reseller but I bought some then realized that I wasn’t going to go through it as fast as I originally thought so I decided to make the original post and see if anybody wanted to buy some. At first I got a lot of responses so I thought maybe there was a demand I could fill here and I ordered more, including one of each grade (to see for myself what those grades meant) and the 4 top grade. The responses were much less and I guess now I know why. I have received only positive feedback so far, so I wasn’t aware of any problem.

 

[Ssonerai]

Dave B, thanks very much for posting this.
I am a 40+ year woodworker in millwork, some cabinets and furniture, and have handled many thousands if not hundreds of thousands of feet of hardwood lumber. However i have very little cue experience. Made a few shafts in the early 80's, picked it up again a couple years ago on the side. When i look at some of the wood FS ads on here, it's possible to think i'm in the wrong trade. If the market were a little deeper and the individual sales a little larger, a person might could make more selling cut-offs and trim wood than building product for furniture in some cases.

The fact of the matter is that for technical work, the grain and growth of any stick of wood needs to be mild and straight. Unfortunately, for marketing cues, desirable wood has to be "spectacular" in appearance, which mostly occurs in less than straight grain wood. Spectacular feature tends to happen in wood cut just off a knot, or near/through a cat face especially, or wherever there is a ton of stress in the tree. Just the opposite of what is ideal for a shaft. As an example, George B was famously a life long woodworker before starting to make cues, he knew and favored mild straight grain.

For grins and giggles i'll analyze the OP's 2nd picture from the top. Shaft #1/(leftmost) is one i'd take a small risk on. it has a repeat wave in the grain along the shaft that might balance out, or it might all curve one way, unless the shaft environment is very close to the build environment. A cuemaker would probably know that and take his own risk considering the grain. I actually think there is a strong chance it will kink, about 4 - 6" down from the top (hard to tell scale)

Shaft #2 the grain runs out wildly, and there is a bad stress section in the middle of a section about 6" down from the top. It is weak in that area and might even possibly fracture, either way the shape of the wood is asking for a kink.

#3 I don't like the first 2" of this blank, but the rest (from side shown) looks about as good as it gets if a person has to use BE in a shaft. Take a chance, cut slow, and maybe after end trim for a 29" or shorter shaft the first 1 - 2" won't kink with a tip or joint ferule. Decent piece of wood for section shown, thought the grain starts to reverse or wander at the bottom of the picture; chance for a long bow, depending on rest of shaft.

#4 - about ditto for #3.

Cuemakers require spectacular wood for demanding customers, so there is a market for it, and the market forces suggest taking chances on less than technically ideal wood. Less than ideal wood can be compensated to some extent in the build, (e.g. coring for butts) and possibly by "barbequing" the wood, though that may (or may not) positively affect other performance characteristics.

The only people the A^10th power grade or whatever fools is neophytes. I'd think you'd be better off just posting full pics of opposite sides (if not all 4). and labeling with a price for stuff sold at a premium, and let the customer make a decision reading the photos, how much risk they want to afford. Right now if a customer buys a bundle of your A^infinity blanks, they seem assured of getting spectacular figure, but the grain could make a portion of them un-usable.

For the barbecue process, I for one would prefer to see a published standard and some indication that you control it and hit the same standards each time. Do the above and you can build a solid market for knowledgeable people that want something different and "better". Right now you don't assure me that a.) you know or understand wood technically (so far i don't think you are cynical, so you probably care) and b.) that you will keep doing things the same to a standard based on considered factors, or publish changes as they occur in your process and why.

Essentially, if you don't do rigorous testing of the performance changes due to your specific barbequing process, you are asking your customers to do it. They will probably report or just guess for posting on here, based on much more subjective factors. So it all becomes opinion.

I am also curious to see an reference standards for shaft wood posted.

This is intended as suggestions for building a solid rep for quality among moderately knowledgeable customers, not a slam. At a given time i would buy one or more of your spectacular shafts for the reason that i know how much lumber a person has to go through to find that one. Your prices seem fair so long as a maker can ID which factors are important to their personal requirements for risk. Especially if you can show and build a rep for the barbeque process and how it objectively obviates any unfavorable characteristics in the wood structure. (test results, not opinion) At the present, i would probably not buy sight unseen.

smt

 

[youngstownkid]

Yes, am aware of what the ideal grain is for regular maple shafts. This is not regular maple though, it is much more stable. I’m excited and admittedly over anxious about the possibilities, which is why I took a chance on ordering some figured pieces. I understand where you guys are coming from but feel your accusations and assumptions are misplaced. I guess I assumed others would see the opportunity that the extra stability provides, especially since I’ve seen others selling figured pieces similar to what I have. I’m not the first person to sell this stuff. Recently I’ve seen some folks jump on the bandwagon so I think it’s just a matter of time before it becomes more widely accepted. FWIW, the shaft in this picture below has grain run off about 8” from the tip, so this is one of those pieces we would avoid if it were regular maple. I took it from square to round the day it arrived and then turned it down to final size the next day. I only did this because I wanted to see how it played compared to regular maple. If it warped and got thrown away the time saved to get the information made it worthwhile. But it didn’t warp. I’ve been playing with it since and recently decided it was a keeper and added ringwork. (Ignore the shaft hanger in the picture.) I have been turning other blanks on a normal schedule including the figured ones. Just because I turned one shaft down in a day doesn’t mean I’m completely crazy, I am not going to take unnecessary chances on all my blanks based on unproven theories. But based on the information I had and that others sell figured blanks, I was excited of what could be, so that’s why I ordered the figured pieces.

 

[youngstownkid]

Better pic of bad grain. Again, I’m just showing you one shaft. Not making promises or guarantees but just showing one example and that’s all.

 

[youngstownkid]

Not a great pic but this is harder to show than I thought it would be.

 

[billiardthought]

Im curious what a AAAAA shaft blank looks like

 

[youngstownkid]

Im curious what a AAAAA shaft blank looks like

Again, I messed up on the grading. Badly. Really need to go away from what was provided to me. Can’t have ppl thinking it’s better than what it is. Based on everything that was discussed I think it’s best for me to keep all the figured stuff for myself.

 

[youngstownkid]

Just had a phone conversation with my source at the mill and it turns out he was using a “proprietary” grading system. Very sorry and embarrassed for not catching this guys. In no way was I intending to hustle anyone. I’m not sure why anyone would order anything less than the very best anyway, but I ordered one of each of the lesser grades just to see for myself what it was and ensure that the several top grades I ordered were in fact discernibly better than the rest. I’m happy with what I got, so I’ll gladly hold onto them to avoid any problems.

 

[CuesDirectly]

Just had a phone conversation with my source at the mill and it turns out he was using a “proprietary” grading system. Very sorry and embarrassed for not catching this guys. In no way was I intending to hustle anyone. I’m not sure why anyone would order anything less than the very best anyway, but I ordered one of each of the lesser grades just to see for myself what it was and ensure that the several top grades I ordered were in fact discernibly better than the rest. I’m happy with what I got, so I’ll gladly hold onto them to avoid any problems.

In the end, I give you a greenie and compliment, great job.

 

[Ssonerai]

If barbequing works, I think you have the makings of a great business,really.
You are honest, willing to examine the possibilities, and willing to work in a positive direction. Much of the product you show is spectacular in terms of figure. Now you need to merely demonstrate through continued development that 1.) barbequing wood takes out some of the problems, which ones? how much? and 2.) that your understanding of wood technology continues to increase and evolve so you can explain your product in objective, (hate to say it, but ) "scientific" manner. IOW, that a given input statistically yields a given output.

I don't think there exists a regular source for really vibrant shaft wood due to the historical fact that as i noted before, spectacular wood comes from highly stressed trees or areas of a given tree. If your barbeque process obviates some or all of that and you get the shaft blanks cut so there is not short/brash grain across the width of the cue, you may have a premium product.

I have worked with thermally modified wood in millwork. It is far more rot resistant (limited application to cues ) and it is more stable. It will not cure short-grain/slash grain issues, may make them slightly weaker.

smt