Orcollo might try to beat the 626 record

[JazzyJeff87]

Don't forget folks- this was an older Willie Mosconi who was traveling all over the U.S daily doing these exhibitions at night- he often slept in his car a few hours prior to the exhibition just to be reasonably fresh that night- he was not holed up somewhere in comfort for months at a time.

Dude get over it. He ran 526 while trying to go as high as he could. He may or may not have tried other times before or after. There are people who are ripped that say they never work out, it’s not true. But who can say? John wasn’t holed up anywhere he was just trying to beat the record that was set. Mosconi possibly could’ve run more if he’d wanted to but if he didn’t then it is what it is. There’s no reason to keep going around mentioning how he “didn’t even care” when he set that record. If that was true I’d have less respect for the guy.

 

[mikemosconi]

My point of view

I don’t think trying to beat 626 is anymore disrespectful than trying to beat 526.
....I applaud the new life it brings to the game.
I hope every player in the world tries to beat it.

But I think it’ll take a while....not holding my breath.

I agree 100% with this take- if POOL was SMART- it would take advantage of this most recent achievement by JS and MARKET the hell out of it by doing JUST what was proposed- start offering big money for guys to now break the new record- it is not a disrespectful act- it could be the beginning of a whole new rebirth of STRAIGHTS- this has been Pool's problem for many years now- it just does not understand marketing concepts- even the most basic. Yesterday's winner in the U.S. Open women's golf event was paid one million $$- how is that for marketing success being returned to the players?

 

[pt109]

Never, ever heard of any other SERIOUS Attempts, even Mosconi's 526 run was not a Serious attempt to run as many balls as he possibly could, If so, he would have tried it numerous times and despite what some people have said on this site- Mosconi did not spend any time looking for higher record runs- for the most part- he just did his job and went home to his family. Until John started all of this- nobody really cared about record runs because it just doesn't matter- it is not a record held in competition. Think of bowling- is there some record number of strikes thrown "outside" of 10 frame competition- did some person ever bowl say 25 consecutive strikes? I don't know- but who cares anyhow, and if someone did that once, would somebody want to spend months at a time trying to bowl 26 consecutive strikes- for what reason- proves nothing at all- so now people want to put up REAL CASH for a new record run- NOW we are talking about something having meaning- but in my mind it only becomes meaningful if there is some PENALTY for NOT making the run- so maybe each pro who wants to attempt a new record run puts up $500 of their own cash and it is forfeited to a charity if they are not successful in a one month time period. If they are successful- they get the $10,000 and keep their $500 registration fee. NOW we would have REAL interest in Straight Pool again- maybe it becomes a tour around the U.S. with attempts held by pros in various major cities- maybe sponsors get involved and the prize grows to $50,000 or MORE- Then John gets REAL credit for being the guy who brought Straights back to life! NOW his time spent has true meaning to all of us who love this game so much!

Engert’s 491.....lotta 400 runs (even one in Canada)
Some say Dick Lane might’ve had more 100 runs than Willie...
...you think none of these players had thoughts of breaking the 526 barrier?

 

[mikemosconi]

Let's keep the record straight here- Mike Lindell's letter stated very falsely that he was sure Mosconi tried every day to run as many balls as he could- As far as anyone knows in fact- he did that exactly once in his life in an exhibition and he ran 526 - and he never mentioned it again UNLESS he was asked about it- Willie, in all his years in competition never tried to continue runs after a match was over just to see how many he could run- there is absolutely no documentation of that ever happening in his career.- pool was a job for him - not a circus act! Who is this guy to make up such BS and put it in a "letter" to look what- "official"?? Man this week has brought out SHT that I never knew people were capable of on this site!

 

[JazzyJeff87]

Let's keep the record straight here- Mike Lindell's letter stated very falsely that he was sure Mosconi tried every day to run as many balls as he could- As far as anyone knows in fact- he did that exactly once in his life in an exhibition and he ran 526 - and he never mentioned it again UNLESS he was asked about it- Willie, in all his years in competition never tried to continue runs after a match was over just to see how many he could run- there is absolutely no documentation of that ever happening in his career.- pool was a job for him - not a circus act! Who is this guy to make up such BS and put it in a "letter" to look what- "official"?? Man this week has brought out SHT that I never knew people were capable of on this site!

Well thank gawd we have players playing because they love the game. The guy was good but he may not be the best role model for our precious pool youths

 

[mikemosconi]

Engert’s 491.....lotta 400 runs (even one in Canada)
Some say Dick Lane might’ve had more 100 runs than Willie...
...you think none of these players had thoughts of breaking the 526 barrier?

Well do YOU think that if they thought they were going to do it - all of their attempts would have been documented- I would imagine so- right? and they were NOT! Dick Lane- a very very good professional 14.1 player- ask Him if he thought he was better than Mosconi- the "some " who say that need an education in billiard history.

 

[JazzyJeff87]

Well do YOU think that if they thought they were going to do it - all of their attempts would have been documented- I would imagine so- right? and they were NOT! Dick Lane- a very very good professional 14.1 player- ask Him if he thought he was better than Mosconi- the "some " who say that need an education in billiard history.

Don’t be trying to dodge the DJ. I’m sure there have been cameras rolling, just in case, while good players tried to beat the record. Schmidt just came up with the winning formula first. It was audacious, fun, and ultimately successful.

 

[pt109]

Well do YOU think that if they thought they were going to do it - all of their attempts would have been documented- I would imagine so- right? and they were NOT! Dick Lane- a very very good professional 14.1 player- (ask Him if he thought he was better than Mosconi- )the "some " who say that need an education in billiard history.

Did someone say Lane was better than Mosconi?
...Dick had a period in his life that he didn’t leave the house until he ran 100...or 150?

Nobody mentioned him being better than Willie...just that he may’ve ran more hundreds..
...I feel pretty confident that if Willie had done the same routine, he would’ve ran more.

 

[skogstokig]

sure, mosconi never tried to run high numbers, mosconi didn't want to run high numbers, and mosconi didn't care one way or the other. since this is brought up time and again as an argument, let us hope the BCA when validating a new record weighs in the player's amount of tries and indifference / lack of concern towards the record.

 

[jrctherake]

It is easier to fail than succeed. Anybody and any game. I just said I would not be surprised if he pulled off 400+ from start. I saw him run between 190-226 three times on three attempts what I was watching.

I knew what you were saying. I agree, I've witnessed him doing the same as you say.

We both, like most here, know DO is called robocop for a reason.....he plays like a machine when he is in high gear.

It would be interesting to say the least.

 

[jrctherake]

...Lately!

Yes Sir.

I was taught that hard work will best talent more times than not.

At the time, they were talking about another sport but, it's TRUE for most everything in life.

A little hard work wont hurt you but, it can make you.

 

[Positively Ralf]

I agree 100% with this take- if POOL was SMART- it would take advantage of this most recent achievement by JS and MARKET the hell out of it by doing JUST what was proposed- start offering big money for guys to now break the new record- it is not a disrespectful act- it could be the beginning of a whole new rebirth of STRAIGHTS- this has been Pool's problem for many years now- it just does not understand marketing concepts- even the most basic. Yesterday's winner in the U.S. Open women's golf event was paid one million $$- how is that for marketing success being returned to the players?

You and pt101 misread what I said(at least that's what I'm hoping it is). I never said the act of breaking the record is disrespectful, I said that the owner putting up 10K for Orcullo to do it and for CJ Wiley singing the praises of Thorsten after this happened is a slap to the face of JS because the way they worded it, they feel JS is not good enough to hold that record. That's all.

If Orcullo wants to get paid 10K to break it, go right ahead and do it. But the owner should just come out and say, "John is not a good enough player to be holding that record. Orcullo is better and he rightfully should hold it."

 

[lfigueroa]

I dont believe it matters that much in the long run.

Lou, you polish the balls, put em on the table and play, how long will the polish effects make it easier for the ball to break easier or slide in pocket easier?

In my experience, after a few (3 to 5) racks...the balls are back to normal. So, 3 to 5 racks would put you around 45 to 75 balls.....what then? You cant take balls off table and polish them again can you? I've never seen that done.

I hate playing with polished balls. They bank, roll/slide and come off rails "funny" to me and "funny" means "unpredictable" and unpredictable means "its over".

That just my opinion from experience with both.

When I started back, I actually tried all this trickery stuff and lol.... it made it worse, not better.

My runs are more consistent with clean but not polished balls because I know what the ball is gonna do when it comes off a rail.

Then again, I'm not running big numbers either way so, what do I know?

How clean the balls are makes a huge difference the longer you play.

And it's one of the reasons it get tougher to reach higher numbers -- the balls do not come apart as easily the dirtier they get.

So in my experience there are several factors the affect how quickly the balls become dirty: what kind of balls are they -- certain balls, like Cyclop, stay cleaner longer; how dirty is the cloth; if on a drop pocket table -- how dirty are the pockets; if on a ball return table, how dirty is the ball return; how dirty is the triangle; and lastly how dirty are the hands of the guy racking.

I take my own balls fresh out of the Diamond ball polisher to the pool room. If I take the Aramiths they start looking bad after 45 minutes, the Cyclop maybe an hour and half. After two, three hours they're definitely ugly. Four hours they're filthy.

At first, the balls will open up like a bag of spilt popcorn. After a couple of hours I need blasting caps.

Lou Figueroa

 

[jrctherake]

How clean the balls are makes a huge difference the longer you play.

And it's one of the reasons it get tougher to reach higher numbers -- the balls do not come apart as easily the dirtier they get.

So in my experience there are several factors the affect how quickly the balls become dirty: what kind of balls are they -- certain balls, like Cyclop, stay cleaner longer; how dirty is the cloth; if on a drop pocket table -- how dirty are the pockets; if on a ball return table, how dirty is the ball return; how dirty is the triangle; and lastly how dirty are the hands of the guy racking.

I take my own balls fresh out of the Diamond ball polisher to the pool room. If I take the Aramiths they start looking bad after 45 minutes, the Cyclop maybe an hour and half. After two, three hours they're definitely ugly. Four hours they're filthy.

At first, the balls will open up like a bag of spilt popcorn. After a couple of hours I need blasting caps.

Lou Figueroa

We agree and on the same page moreso than you think Sir.

I know that polished balls break easier but, I've not seen the affect last past 5th rack or so.

Around 75ish balls is where I've always noticed the balls start going back to their original reactions on breaks, especially off rails....

See, to me Lou, that is why I hate polished balls. I have to firstly adjust to the slicker balls, ok...alls good...but wait, now a rack or so later I get out if line and I'm forced to bank....uh oh, in my mind I'm thinking "do I allow for the polish or has the affects wore off already?

See, I've had several of my higher runs end simply because I was expecting the ball to skid/slide/go long off a rail.....but.....it didn't because the polished affects had wore off.

Lou, like you, I'm a 14.1 fanatic and believe it is by far the one game I could play forever if I had to pick just one and never play another.

I'm a purist in most everything in my life. Its cost me dearly at times but, a few times, I've been rewarded for it.

BTW, we agree on the cyclops balls vs others staying clean longer.

As a matter of fact, I believe the cyclops balls are the worst balls to use polish on. To me cyclops balls get "to slick" when polished....way to slick.

I forgot about that part. The balls you use do show a wider variance of performance in a shorter time frame.

I'm big enough to admit when I wrong but, I'm not wrong about the polished balls in general but I'm a "little off" about the difference between the cyclops vs "every other brand".....when polish is added to the mix.

 

[WildWing]

How clean the balls are makes a huge difference the longer you play.

And it's one of the reasons it get tougher to reach higher numbers -- the balls do not come apart as easily the dirtier they get.

So in my experience there are several factors the affect how quickly the balls become dirty: what kind of balls are they -- certain balls, like Cyclop, stay cleaner longer; how dirty is the cloth; if on a drop pocket table -- how dirty are the pockets; if on a ball return table, how dirty is the ball return; how dirty is the triangle; and lastly how dirty are the hands of the guy racking.

I take my own balls fresh out of the Diamond ball polisher to the pool room. If I take the Aramiths they start looking bad after 45 minutes, the Cyclop maybe an hour and half. After two, three hours they're definitely ugly. Four hours they're filthy.

At first, the balls will open up like a bag of spilt popcorn. After a couple of hours I need blasting caps.

Lou Figueroa

The longest runs ever were made without cleaning the balls during the run.

It's a good excuse I guess, but if your description is correct, you must have some bad habits that make the balls that dirty.

When it comes to high runs, better stick to the facts.

All the best,
WW

 

[lfigueroa]

The longest runs ever were made without cleaning the balls during the run.

It's a good excuse I guess, but if your description is correct, you must have some bad habits that make the balls that dirty.

When it comes to high runs, better stick to the facts.

All the best,
WW

Yes, historically the longest runs were made without cleaning the balls during the run. That is before contemporary players started polishing them repeatedly during a run making it easier to open them up on break shots.

As to the facts, I've told them to you. Commercial rooms often take their time before replacing worn, dirty cloth and Diamond ball returns are notorious for collecting all kinds of crap inside the table.

You should try getting out more.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

We agree and on the same page moreso than you think Sir.

I know that polished balls break easier but, I've not seen the affect last past 5th rack or so.

Around 75ish balls is where I've always noticed the balls start going back to their original reactions on breaks, especially off rails....

See, to me Lou, that is why I hate polished balls. I have to firstly adjust to the slicker balls, ok...alls good...but wait, now a rack or so later I get out if line and I'm forced to bank....uh oh, in my mind I'm thinking "do I allow for the polish or has the affects wore off already?

See, I've had several of my higher runs end simply because I was expecting the ball to skid/slide/go long off a rail.....but.....it didn't because the polished affects had wore off.

Lou, like you, I'm a 14.1 fanatic and believe it is by far the one game I could play forever if I had to pick just one and never play another.

I'm a purist in most everything in my life. Its cost me dearly at times but, a few times, I've been rewarded for it.

BTW, we agree on the cyclops balls vs others staying clean longer.

As a matter of fact, I believe the cyclops balls are the worst balls to use polish on. To me cyclops balls get "to slick" when polished....way to slick.

I forgot about that part. The balls you use do show a wider variance of performance in a shorter time frame.

I'm big enough to admit when I wrong but, I'm not wrong about the polished balls in general but I'm a "little off" about the difference between the cyclops vs "every other brand".....when polish is added to the mix.

Well, I guess everyone polishes balls differently.

But in my experience, if they're polished properly, with the correct agents, they play perfectly right from the get-go.

And skids BTW are not a result of polishing -- that would be from scuffed balls and chalk on the CB and OBs.

Lou Figueroa

 

[WildWing]

Yes, historically the longest runs were made without cleaning the balls during the run.

Lou Figueroa

Just keep that in mind. It's the only correct statement, among many, to try to diminish John's record. All the other BS excuses do not matter.

All the best,
WW

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Don't forget folks- this was an older Willie Mosconi who was traveling all over the U.S daily doing these exhibitions at night- he often slept in his car a few hours prior to the exhibition just to be reasonably fresh that night- he was not holed up somewhere in comfort for months at a time.

“Older and living out of a car sometimes”. Really ? Early 40’s isn’t old by most standards, even during the mid 1950’s.
Schmidt is living out of an RV and is older than Willie’s when he had his wondrous run.

Quit talking about bowling, you’re off base there.

 

[sfleinen]

Let's keep the record straight here- Mike Lindell's letter stated very falsely that he was sure Mosconi tried every day to run as many balls as he could- As far as anyone knows in fact- he did that exactly once in his life in an exhibition and he ran 526 - and he never mentioned it again UNLESS he was asked about it- Willie, in all his years in competition never tried to continue runs after a match was over just to see how many he could run- there is absolutely no documentation of that ever happening in his career.- pool was a job for him - not a circus act! Who is this guy to make up such BS and put it in a "letter" to look what- "official"?? Man this week has brought out SHT that I never knew people were capable of on this site!

Mike:

No less than Charles Ursitti regales us with accounts where Mosconi did, on several occasions, try to run balls for as long as he could, because there was some consternation from other players (e.g. Babe Cranfield) about who has the highest run. One such account is an unfinished run of 589 from Willie on a 4.5x9 (Charlie racking for him), where he told Charles that he was tired and put his cue down.

Bill Smith's 2016 interview of Charles Ursitti:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=KGm4TtJQKXE

(As per usual, Charles is very engaging in this interview. And I believe him, because of his renowned no-nonsense style. He also name-drops several witnesses who are still alive, and these folks have not stepped forward to dispute Charles' account of Willie's unfinished 589.)

As for Mike Lindell's open letter, with the info you have, why not get you a Facebook account -- if you don't already have one -- and reply to it? The link right to the letter is in the same post from me that you read the screen snapshot from.

What was interesting is that the Mosconi hanger-ons -- expectedly -- are going on and on with the urban legends on the wild-wild-west forums like here on AzB. What was not expected is they tried to do the same on social media -- where you can't hide behind an alias -- and got barbecued. That was Mike Lindell's point in one of the paragraphs; that the LegendOfMosconi[TM] is like some kind of drug, where people hallucinate things that either didn't happen, or happened in a completely unrelated event.

Maybe you might be interested in setting the record straight as well, in calling him out on the "Willie tried for the highest run possible every attempt at the table" thing? (Doing so here on the wild-wild-west forum will do bupkus; doing it on social media has a much better effect.)

-Sean