Help-Questions about A.E. Schmidt 8' Table for Newb

S

Stickin2it

Registered
Hi, Long story short: Wife and I thought we were getting a good deal on a used, what was supposed to be an A.E. Schmidt Capricorn --- we drove 2 hours to disassemble and pick it up. From the pictures on Schmidt (with no closeups) it looked right (of course noone seems to post close ups of detailed rail markings to compare ), --- Got there and took off felt and Large chunk of slate broke/missing near side pocket but still appeared to be under rail and not something that would affect gameplay after re-assembled. --- Got home and after doing some research (what little is available on the internet) found out by markings on table it was NOT a Capricorn (Very Nice Model) but actually a Talon made in 2000 (1 inch Framed Slate). The Looks are actually in decent shape except for what appears to be very scratched up leather pockets from what appears to be a cat (or maybe eagle) --- I know we overpaid for sure at $800 + $120 gas + we will still have to pay to have it Pro setup and it needs new felt and cushions. (Ugh). We will have an easy $1,500 to $1,600 easy in it when we are done, ,maybe more. --- I think the guy I bought it from did not know as he kept having to ask the guy he originally bought it from questions about it for me. I know, my fault, buyer beware, but being new and in a time crunch sometimes people make hasty decisions. --- Any Ideas of how much I overpaid? Maybe some of you Experienced and Knowledgeable people can help me find or have, or know of any access to Information that we have not been able to find, which is next to nothing. Please be patient with me as I am new to using Forums of any kind and it is easy to get lost in here. Thanks in Advance! Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
I don't see much difference in the 2 tables. I'm pretty sure construction is nearly if not exactly the same.

Schmidtt commands a premium price for their tables. Justified? Maybe, Maybe not.
They quit making commercial tables a few decades ago.

I'll go out on a limb and say they make one of the best Funature style tables. They've been in business nearly as long as Brunswick.

They still manufacture tables in St Louis, but their shop is pretty small compared to yesteryear. When I was there last they didn't mention they had another shop but didn't specifically ask that question. What I saw was small but impressive custom work.

Always liked Schmidtt. A shame they got out of commercial tables. Loved how they played. Lot different than Brunswick GC's

https://gebhardts.com/diamond-pool-table/
 
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Thanks for the response 3Kushn. -- well, the wife and I love to play pool, played on leagues for recreation for years, i achieved the top handicaps in the different leagues and lost interest in paying each week, ( got real expensive for the two of us after Dues/Gas/Drinks/food if running late. ) -- We are buying a new home that will finally have room for a table although it will have to be the Living Room. lol. --
1.) We do want it to look nice in the home, I know alot of people don't like the furniture
style tables, but we do and are not Pro's.
2.) I am just uncertain if it is as good as the newer ones, although it seems to be built like a tank.
everything is HEAVY. No metal brackets, parts are all either all wood or thick wood layers.
3.) I am going to try and call Schmidt and see if they can give me any info. I am just hoping back in
2000 that they did not make 3 tiers of tables and we ended up with the lowest tier, as website
now only seems to sell 2 tiers: Expensive and Very Expensive..lol.
4.) The Slate says "Italian Slate" but tI thought they only used Belgium Slate.
5.) Had to Rubber Hammer the Frame apart to put pieces in the SUV's to transport.
Luckily it was not Glued together or I'm not sure what I would have done. BUT I did not see
any Dowel Rods holding it together which kind of scares me as I thought i remember reading
that they used dowels.
6.) I guess my largest Fear is that this is some kind of "Frankenstein Build".
7.) I'm guessing that after Pro Setup - New Cushions - New Simonis Felt - This table should play
halfway decent i'm hoping.
Sorry about all the numbered sentences but I always think it makes it easier for people to read,
and I appreciate any thoughts, insights, and responses.
I understand everyone has different opinions on everything and like to listen to all, no matter what
their response is.
Thanks..
 
AE Schmidt makes a nice table. Since your committed you should save your judgement until you have completed setting up. You should be able to get new cloth installed for around $450. I wouldn’t worry about the scratches on the leather, it’s a used table. You can replace the pockets for a few hundred if it bothers you.
Good luck
 
Thanks for the response PoolHall, yes we are commited.. lol We will not know if we like it until we do all the new items to it, to be honest, i kinda like that 2 of the pockets are all scratched up, gives a story and character, we are not the kind that is going to worry too much if people playing on it causes slight damage to finish, they're meant to be used. But I believe we will love it.
Just got off phone with Schmidt and from what they said, it's actually a nicer model sold in 2000 than the Capricorn. with all the upgraded trim and extras. It seems that this one sold for somewhere between $4,700 and $5,600 plus tax back then. and that was 20 years ago. -- So I believe for $800 we didn't get hurt. Can't wait to get it setup in 1 month. just wondering if the Simonis 860 everyone raves about is worth the extra cost. But I will find out.. Thanks.
 
Stickin2it said:
Thanks for the response 3Kushn. -- well, the wife and I love to play pool, played on leagues for recreation for years, i achieved the top handicaps in the different leagues and lost interest in paying each week, ( got real expensive for the two of us after Dues/Gas/Drinks/food if running late. ) -- We are buying a new home that will finally have room for a table although it will have to be the Living Room. lol. --
1.) We do want it to look nice in the home, I know alot of people don't like the furniture
style tables, but we do and are not Pro's.
2.) I am just uncertain if it is as good as the newer ones, although it seems to be built like a tank.
everything is HEAVY. No metal brackets, parts are all either all wood or thick wood layers.
3.) I am going to try and call Schmidt and see if they can give me any info. I am just hoping back in
2000 that they did not make 3 tiers of tables and we ended up with the lowest tier, as website
now only seems to sell 2 tiers: Expensive and Very Expensive..lol.
4.) The Slate says "Italian Slate" but tI thought they only used Belgium Slate.
5.) Had to Rubber Hammer the Frame apart to put pieces in the SUV's to transport.
Luckily it was not Glued together or I'm not sure what I would have done. BUT I did not see
any Dowel Rods holding it together which kind of scares me as I thought i remember reading
that they used dowels.
6.) I guess my largest Fear is that this is some kind of "Frankenstein Build".
7.) I'm guessing that after Pro Setup - New Cushions - New Simonis Felt - This table should play
halfway decent i'm hoping.
Sorry about all the numbered sentences but I always think it makes it easier for people to read,
and I appreciate any thoughts, insights, and responses.
I understand everyone has different opinions on everything and like to listen to all, no matter what
their response is.
Thanks..
Click to expand...

Just going through your list

If you like furniture style tables, that's fine and I think Schmidtt is one of the better choices for that style table.

There's so few Schmidtt tables. I really haven't seen how they're put together. I think I'd prefer an older table than newer. My brother had one similar to yours and it played fine.

Normally dowels were used as locating pins and allows for temporary setup prior to inserting the bolts.

Italian Slate in my opinion is the best there is. Of course like many things there different grades of slate. Generally Italian is better than Brazilian. Some will argue that. I've never heard of Belgian slates.

The main parts should have S/N's and they should all match. At least they used to stamp the frame, legs and rails with numbers.

Decent rubber should be good for around 30 years. You may not need to replace the cushions. If there's a way to test the rails first I'd do that before simply changing them. And when it comes to this particularly and the rest of the setup as well, choose a real pro. Do not use people from some store that happens to sell and set up tables. You very likely will not be happy with a Watkins, or Mr Pool Bar and Stool outfit. I suggest you go to the Table Mechanic section on AZB and choose someone from that list.

What I think Schmidtt has done business plan wise is said Hey we will never be able to compete in the price game with China in the home table market, so lets build good to very good tables and get what we need price wise. In other words lets incorporate some if not all of the high quality build features we know we can do and sell to the smaller market.

Schmidtt has been in business nearly as long as Brunswick an they didn't suffer a devastating fire destroying nearly all their drawings, blueprints and history like Brunswick did.
 
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Also, If anyone knows for sure a reputable online dealer to buy the Simonis 860 from for a good price, it would be much appreciated.
 
Wow! thanks 3kushn,, that is some great info! you guys and gals in this forum community are great! I am off to do more research. ---- so far I have looked at the bottoms of the legs as we have it all wrapped up for protection until we move. They are stamped/burnt in "Adams Wood Products" they have no s/n that i can find but appear to very well built/finished and very very detailed. -- scares me a little finding this out... as I investigate/dissect this table even more with the valuable information i gleam from more knowledgeable individuals such as yourself I will amass and arsenal of questions and then call Schmidt back and ask them quickly the list... They were very nice in call today and sounded glad to help. Loving this company even more, especially that they are an American Based Company. -- I will update this as I find more out.. Thanks. -- Also, I'm assuming that "Duplicate Post" comment means that this question has all ready been answered in another forum question? sorry, I am new to forums of any kind..
 
so far I have looked at the bottoms of the legs as we have it all wrapped up for protection until we move. They are stamped/burnt in "Adams Wood Products" they have no s/n that i can find but appear to very well built/finished and very very detailed
Click to expand...

Don't get many pro woodworking rags anymore, but Adams used to advertise in all of them. They were the go-to source for high quality solid wood production legs of any sort. Their primary business. One of those things for the materials, quality and detail, didn't make sense to make in your own shop. So i imagine they are a regular supplier to AES.

Good to hear AES are using American made subcontractors, American wood products even in the parts they outsource. :thumbup:

smt
 
Ssonerai, I agree, that is nice to know. The more I discover about this table, the happier I am with the find. And starting to feel like maybe I didn't overpay as much as I thought I did especially with it coming with a set of Aramith Balls and about an extra $100 (used value) worth of extras. ---------- I know it won't have much resale value if we ever decide to sell and get a different one with the slate having a chunk missing near outside edge, But Meh, as long as it plays decent enough after setup, we will have no reason to do that.
 
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