Question for you tight pocket junkies and table modifications:

[tjlmbklr]

Disclaimer: the 'Talk to a Mechanic' section seems dead lately. So I am posting this here.

In the past on my first table (Olhausen) I went the "extended subrail route but sold that table years back and now 10+ years later I am in the process of restoring/setting up a new table. What we didn't do on the Olhasen mostly because I didn't know about Diamondizing the pockets, so the pockets played like garbage. So now on my next table I decided to go the cheaper, easier route and go with 50A neoprene 3/8" (9.5mm) facings. I will also be cutting my pocket angles to more closely match Diamonds at 141° corners and 102° sides and 10-13° down (still haven't decided on those angles).

So my question is: My facings have a lot of curl to them (read on to know why), so will typical 3M Fast Bond/RKC or Barge cement hold them in place? I went with a bulk neoprene roll of 50A from Amazon rather then buy them pre-cut from Classic Billiards. It came rolled up and I just had to cut them myself. They now have a bit of a curve to them. I tried sandwiching them between two flat cookie sheets with 35lbs of weight then put it in the oven at 185F for 30 minutes and then let them cool. It took some of the curve out but I fear this curve in the rubber will pose an issue when gluing them on.

Should I do the oven thing again at a higher temp, for longer perhaps?

Also on a side note; would you do these for the side pockets too or 1/4 facings for them? I read some guys don't go as extreme for the sides.

Looking for advice.

Thanks.

Here is before I put them in the oven:

here is After (not much change:

 

[Geosnooker]

Can’t help on the corner issue.


We use neoprene in our science lab for making protective covers, etc.

Before cutting it, we ‘almost’ boil it...and then put It in the freezer for a few hours. It cuts easier and retains its shape afterwards. If we don’t heat and freeze it, then it seems wants to return to its its shape...like a garden hose.

We use neoprene covers for Protection up to 450F or so. I’ll defer to others but you should be able to heat it quite a bit hotter ( 300F?) with no damage. If any doubt..try a piece of leftover material first.

 

[Dan_B]

man, that's some facing material, looks more than 3/8, more like 3/4 thick looking at from here.
Having that much material you could experiment with what glue.
I use roo glue for cushion work, had to make a jig for clamping, at least 24hrs of clamp time.
Roo cured has a neoprene like flexible bond.

 

[tjlmbklr]

Can’t help on the corner issue.


We use neoprene in our science lab for making protective covers, etc.

Before cutting it, we ‘almost’ boil it...and then put It in the freezer for a few hours. It cuts easier and retains its shape afterwards. If we don’t heat and freeze it, then it seems wants to return to its its shape...like a garden hose.

We use neoprene covers for Protection up to 450F or so. I’ll defer to others but you should be able to heat it quite a bit hotter ( 300F?) with no damage. If any doubt..try a piece of leftover material first.

Thanks for the tips. I thought about the quick freeze after but the cookie sheet I have them on with the 35lbs of weight makes that impossible. I am currently cooking them again with same method but at 225 for 30 minutes. I'll see what that does. Maybe Ill bump it up to 250, or 275F.

 

[rexus31]

Disclaimer: the 'Talk to a Mechanic' section seems dead lately. So I am posting this here.

In the past on my first table (Olhausen) I went the "extended subrail route but sold that table years back and now 10+ years later I am in the process of restoring/setting up a new table. What we didn't do on the Olhasen mostly because I didn't know about Diamondizing the pockets, so the pockets played like garbage. So now on my next table I decided to go the cheaper, easier route and go with 50A neoprene 3/8" (9.5mm) facings. I will also be cutting my pocket angles to more closely match Diamonds at 141° corners and 102° sides and 10-13° down (still haven't decided on those angles).

So my question is: My facings have a lot of curl to them (read on to know why), so will typical 3M Fast Bond/RKC or Barge cement hold them in place? I went with a bulk neoprene roll of 50A from Amazon rather then buy them pre-cut from Classic Billiards. It came rolled up and I just had to cut them myself. They now have a bit of a curve to them. I tried sandwiching them between two flat cookie sheets with 35lbs of weight then put it in the oven at 185F for 30 minutes and then let them cool. It took some of the curve out but I fear this curve in the rubber will pose an issue when gluing them on.

Should I do the oven thing again at a higher temp, for longer perhaps?

Also on a side note; would you do these for the side pockets too or 1/4 facings for them? I read some guys don't go as extreme for the sides.

Looking for advice.

Thanks.

Here is before I put them in the oven:

here is After (not much change:

You can try glueing it crown side facing out, tape it down and let it sit overnight. That should do it if you are using a good adhesive. If not, you may need to use mechanical fasteners (narrow stapes) to hold it down.

 

[tjlmbklr]

You can try glueing it crown side facing out, tape it down and let it sit overnight. That should do it if you are using a good adhesive. If not, you may need to use mechanical fasteners (narrow stapes) to hold it down.

Thanks. The issue with that is some are crown out, some are in but the angle of the cut stays the same so I am not sure how many I have out vs. in.

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[tjlmbklr]

man, that's some facing material, looks more than 3/8, more like 3/4 thick looking at from here.
Having that much material you could experiment with what glue.
I use roo glue for cushion work, had to make a jig for clamping, at least 24hrs of clamp time.
Roo cured has a neoprene like flexible bond.

No it's definitely 3/8 not double as you are seeing it. 3/4", could you imagine?

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[tjlmbklr]

man, that's some facing material, looks more than 3/8, more like 3/4 thick looking at from here.
Having that much material you could experiment with what glue.
I use roo glue for cushion work, had to make a jig for clamping, at least 24hrs of clamp time.
Roo cured has a neoprene like flexible bond.

Just in case there was any doubt.

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[ChrisinNC]

Sorry, but a table with 3/8 inch thick pocket facings will play like crap. I know because I’ve had one. Too much “dead” cushion area will come in to play in a huge negative way for all various disciplines of pool games you might play on it.

As far as the curved pocket facings, I wouldn’t take any chances over a few $’s. Order the 1/4 inch neoprenes from classic Billiards that won’t be bowed. Using them instead of the 3/8 inch facings should still give you 4-5/8 inch pockets. If you must go to 4-3/8 inch pockets, then I’d order the 3/8 inch neoprenes from Ken at classic Billiards – not worth taking a chance with the curved ones.

 

[tjlmbklr]

Sorry, but a table with 3/8 inch thick pocket facings will play like crap. I know because I’ve had one. Too much “dead” cushion area will come in to play in a huge negative way for all various disciplines of pool games you might play on it.

As far as the curved pocket facings, I wouldn’t take any chances over a few $’s. Order the 1/4 inch neoprenes from classic Billiards that won’t be bowed. Using them instead of the 3/8 inch facings should still give you 4-5/8 inch pockets.

A local billiards supply store sells the 1/4" ones but I want to go tighter. This is only an 1/8" more on each side. These seem to have good reviews but it all depends on who you ask. Will it play as good as a Diamond? Hell no! Will it play better then my Olhausen with extended subrails and 145° pockets. I have no doubt. And I played on that table for 2 years. Hated it. I want to go tight, but on a budget. I'll take my chances.

As for the curve, I did one more round in tbe oven at 225 for 30 mins. Then I moved the cookie sheet to the sink with 20lbs of weight still on it and poured ice water on it and let it sit. They are significantly better now. Plus they are 50A, so they are softer than normal facings, just thicker which will be good to help with the Accu-fast cushions rebound effect.

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[ChrisinNC]

A local billiards supply store sells the 1/4" ones but I want to go tighter. This is only an 1/8" more on each side. These seem to have good reviews but it all depends on who you ask. Will it play as good as a Diamond? Hell no! Will it play better then my Olhausen with extended subrails and 145° pockets. I have no doubt. And I played on that table for 2 years. Hated it. I want to go tight, but on a budget. I'll take my chances.

As for the curve, I did one more round in tbe oven at 225 for 30 mins. Then I moved the cookie sheet to the sink with 20lbs of weight still on it and poured ice water on it and let it sit. They are significantly better now. Plus they are 50A, so they are softer than normal facings, just thicker which will be good to help with the Accu-fast cushions rebound effect.

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Sounds like the problem with that last table was the 145° pocket facing angles. Even 5 inch corner pocket mouth’s will play extremely difficult with those angles. A 4 1/2 inch pocket would play off the charts ridiculous/unfair with those angles. No wonder you hated that table!

 

[tjlmbklr]

Sounds like the problem with that last table was the 145° pocket facing angles. Even 5 inch corner pocket mouth’s will play extremely difficult with those angles. A 4 1/2 inch pocket would play off the charts ridiculous/unfair with those angles. No wonder you hated that table!

That's Olhausen for you. Why they keep making their pockets at that angle is beyond me. They are great home grade tables otherwise.

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