Pool shots - Less is more

Tin Man

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Many people stop getting better at pool because they didn't realize they missed a turn. They keep on doing what worked for a while and when it stops working they reach the wrong conclusions.

When a player first learns pool they have to keep learning new shots. People keep showing them new things. "Hey, did you ever try hitting it this way?" "If you're ever in this spot here's a cool shot..." Etc. And little by little they acquire the tools they need to deal with those challenges on the table. Killing the cue ball, throwing balls in, playing multiple rail routes, using inside english. At first they are terrible at some of these shots, but they keep at them and the make percentage continues to climb.

So their formula for improvement is set: Keep learning new shots and keep improving at them. This works for a time. They do keep learning more shots, and they do keep improving. But then a funny thing happens. The improvement tapers off. Slowly at first, and then screeching to a halt. They have days where everything works and, knowing all the shots, they feel the issue is 'consistency'. They just can't figure out why they can't put their game together to where it works more than once in a while. They are good enough to win sets off the top local players, but why can't they become the guy who wins match after match until they are the last man standing?

Do they question their approach? No! It got them this far! Everything was working just fine until they got stuck. They take a lesson from a top player they end up learning a few obscure trick shots and think they benefitted because they did technically learn something. They work with an instructor and often end up believing it is all fundamentals. They decide that consistency stems from fundamentals, so they go all in. Then you see people go down really weird rabbit holes. They read books and watch videos and spend countless hours lagging the cue ball to the head rail and staring at their back arm. Practice becomes miserable and the game starts becoming harder and grindier. Maybe they show a little improvement and that, coupled with their occasional good sessions, convinces them they are still on the right road. But as the years start to roll by and it is clear they aren't making progress then they fall back to blaming it on a lack of time or talent. "The only way I could get to the next level is if I put in a TON more time than I have right now. I can't put pool in front of family/work so this is where the buck stops". Or "I guess some people just have the extra something, lord knows I've worked as hard as anyone but it just wasn't meant to be for me".

Of course you need to develop your fundamentals, put in work at the table, and it helps to have two eyes and two arms. But having worked with many, many players in this range I will die on the hill of saying that isn't the biggest problem. The problem is they missed the turn a while back.

The path they need to take forward involves less shots, not more. See, in the beginning you really did need to learn all the shots. So learning more shots was a good thing. And developing your skills at them was critical too. But only to a point! Because after you stall out you need to read the signpost: There is a limit to how consistently you can execute each different shot! Some are 99% shots, some are 90% shots, some are 75% shots, and some are 50% at best. No amount of time and no stance is going to change the fact there are limits on our make percentages on these difficult opportunities.

So how to make progress? Well, first it's good idea to start to identify which shots are which. Instead of saying "I should be able to make all of these, better keep working on that stroke until it comes together for me", get real! Say "Man, some of these shots are going to cause me to lose a lot of games if I build my runs with them!" Learn which shots are high percentage and which shots are low percentage.

Next, let's take a good look at the 99% and the 90% shots. You need to get really good at these. Not just pocketing, but really fighting for every inch with the cue ball. You need to become deadly accurate with these types of shots. Why? Because great pool comes from committing to building and executing runs with only 90%+ shots! If you play to a zone that ends up with a 75% shot and then miss, it is silly to conclude "I should've made that". WRONG! You can never make that 100% of the time. Quit fighting it! Instead go to the 95% shot where you missed your cue ball target and left yourself a tester. Sure you were the favorite. But if you take two 75% shots a rack you are now a coin flip to dog it every time you step to the table. No way to make that consistent.

In short, first put together a great set of shots, then put most of them away. Recognize that improvement comes from improving cue ball accuracy with high percentage shots that allows you to avoid gambling on tougher maneuvers. With my most advanced players that is all I do, help them sort out which shots are which, work on maxing out the percentages by understanding the nuances of the high percentage shots, and then demonstrating how to build runs that stick to those shots only.

It's not sexy. It's a lot more glamorous to teach someone a cool double the rail spin shot than it is to break down routine cue ball transitions and help identify where you can pick up a few percentage, or which of two similar moves is slightly more accurate and can get you better speed control. I sometimes feel for my most advanced players (who are coming to learn new things) they find themselves paying me to take tools away from them. But that is what needs to be done. Less tools, less shots. They only feel disappointed until they realize they aren't turning over the table as often and it is coming easier.

Then they see the new road in front of them. It is a different direction from that of the first half of their pool journey, but fortunately it leads to the pool game they've always wanted.
 
Ouch, do you know me that well..?

Those are great words put together in an eye opening perspective when I look back to try to figure out why I'm one of those you described, one that probably missed that turn many many years ago.
Thanks

Skickat från min SM-G988B via Tapatalk
 
This feeds right into my own story about when a local top guy told me that I played too many trick shots. I could make any ball from anywhere in those days. However improvement was at a crawl and my top gear was day to day crap shoot. I listened to that guy, changed my mind set, which changed my pattern play, and it hurt my game initially. Once the dust settled playing "easier" and less flashy made me a much better player. ...well, it made me a player with a greater winning percentage...lol
 
Many people stop getting better at pool because they didn't realize they missed a turn. They keep on doing what worked for a while and when it stops working they reach the wrong conclusions.

When a player first learns pool they have to keep learning new shots. People keep showing them new things. "Hey, did you ever try hitting it this way?" "If you're ever in this spot here's a cool shot..." Etc. And little by little they acquire the tools they need to deal with those challenges on the table. Killing the cue ball, throwing balls in, playing multiple rail routes, using inside english. At first they are terrible at some of these shots, but they keep at them and the make percentage continues to climb.

So their formula for improvement is set: Keep learning new shots and keep improving at them. This works for a time. They do keep learning more shots, and they do keep improving. But then a funny thing happens. The improvement tapers off. Slowly at first, and then screeching to a halt. They have days where everything works and, knowing all the shots, they feel the issue is 'consistency'. They just can't figure out why they can't put their game together to where it works more than once in a while. They are good enough to win sets off the top local players, but why can't they become the guy who wins match after match until they are the last man standing?

Do they question their approach? No! It got them this far! Everything was working just fine until they got stuck. They take a lesson from a top player they end up learning a few obscure trick shots and think they benefitted because they did technically learn something. They work with an instructor and often end up believing it is all fundamentals. They decide that consistency stems from fundamentals, so they go all in. Then you see people go down really weird rabbit holes. They read books and watch videos and spend countless hours lagging the cue ball to the head rail and staring at their back arm. Practice becomes miserable and the game starts becoming harder and grindier. Maybe they show a little improvement and that, coupled with their occasional good sessions, convinces them they are still on the right road. But as the years start to roll by and it is clear they aren't making progress then they fall back to blaming it on a lack of time or talent. "The only way I could get to the next level is if I put in a TON more time than I have right now. I can't put pool in front of family/work so this is where the buck stops". Or "I guess some people just have the extra something, lord knows I've worked as hard as anyone but it just wasn't meant to be for me".

Of course you need to develop your fundamentals, put in work at the table, and it helps to have two eyes and two arms. But having worked with many, many players in this range I will die on the hill of saying that isn't the biggest problem. The problem is they missed the turn a while back.

The path they need to take forward involves less shots, not more. See, in the beginning you really did need to learn all the shots. So learning more shots was a good thing. And developing your skills at them was critical too. But only to a point! Because after you stall out you need to read the signpost: There is a limit to how consistently you can execute each different shot! Some are 99% shots, some are 90% shots, some are 75% shots, and some are 50% at best. No amount of time and no stance is going to change the fact there are limits on our make percentages on these difficult opportunities.

So how to make progress? Well, first it's good idea to start to identify which shots are which. Instead of saying "I should be able to make all of these, better keep working on that stroke until it comes together for me", get real! Say "Man, some of these shots are going to cause me to lose a lot of games if I build my runs with them!" Learn which shots are high percentage and which shots are low percentage.

Next, let's take a good look at the 99% and the 90% shots. You need to get really good at these. Not just pocketing, but really fighting for every inch with the cue ball. You need to become deadly accurate with these types of shots. Why? Because great pool comes from committing to building and executing runs with only 90%+ shots! If you play to a zone that ends up with a 75% shot and then miss, it is silly to conclude "I should've made that". WRONG! You can never make that 100% of the time. Quit fighting it! Instead go to the 95% shot where you missed your cue ball target and left yourself a tester. Sure you were the favorite. But if you take two 75% shots a rack you are now a coin flip to dog it every time you step to the table. No way to make that consistent.

In short, first put together a great set of shots, then put most of them away. Recognize that improvement comes from improving cue ball accuracy with high percentage shots that allows you to avoid gambling on tougher maneuvers. With my most advanced players that is all I do, help them sort out which shots are which, work on maxing out the percentages by understanding the nuances of the high percentage shots, and then demonstrating how to build runs that stick to those shots only.

It's not sexy. It's a lot more glamorous to teach someone a cool double the rail spin shot than it is to break down routine cue ball transitions and help identify where you can pick up a few percentage, or which of two similar moves is slightly more accurate and can get you better speed control. I sometimes feel for my most advanced players (who are coming to learn new things) they find themselves paying me to take tools away from them. But that is what needs to be done. Less tools, less shots. They only feel disappointed until they realize they aren't turning over the table as often and it is coming easier.

Then they see the new road in front of them. It is a different direction from that of the first half of their pool journey, but fortunately it leads to the pool game they've always wanted.
Tin Man, I really enjoy reading your posts. I think you have offered some creative and accurate criticisms of how many people view their practice and improvement. I can't say I disagree with your post above. The concept of becoming deadly accurate on high percentage shots is something I am going to incorporate in my practice now. Thank you.

kollegedave
 
Great stuff, thanks !

Have you seen a pattern in what shots are 90% - 99% for the majority of players ? If so what shots would they be ?
Conversely have you seen a pattern in common low percentage shots that players too often use ? Again any examples ?

This may be an over-simplification and perhaps the questions are un-answerable but if anything comes to mind it would be greatly appreciated.

Dave
 
Nah, I don’t navel gaze. My navel is still there.

Pick up the stick and hit the Ball into the hole.

Billiards has more gurus than Hunduism. Then again there’s only 65 thousand posts on the aiming Forum...So must be some magic.

‘A pro told me that...‘. Tomorrow another sage will be quoted.
 
Great stuff, thanks !

Have you seen a pattern in what shots are 90% - 99% for the majority of players ? If so what shots would they be ?
Conversely have you seen a pattern in common low percentage shots that players too often use ? Again any examples ?

This may be an over-simplification and perhaps the questions are un-answerable but if anything comes to mind it would be greatly appreciated.

Dave

OK, here's kind a small example. This is an unlisted video I posted in my private training group (please no requests to join, this is only for pool bootcamp graduates that I've had a chance to train, it is intended for ongoing support to help integrate the skills we build together).

Take a look at the diagram and determine how you would run out playing 9 ball. Once you've decided you can keep reading and watch my video (I'd recommend 2x speed). ***SPOILERS*** Playing to the middle of the table off of the 6 and cutting the 7 in with the plan of coming off the end rail is a tough transition (75%). It is hard to play accurate speed and direction off a shot like that and can often result in a hook, a scratch, or ending up straight in. Better to go to a little extra trouble off of an easy shot to set up a 95% transition. As a small follow up I use a fully rolling ball on the first shot, I am not using any below center which brings the side pocket in play, is tougher to execute, and isn't as consistent with speed and direction. There's more to say but hopefully my video demonstrates how proficiency with easy shots is the key to consistency. PS- I never struck below center, these are all rolling shots (except for a 9 ball stop shot)!


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Nice.... the only difference I have is the shape on the 7. I wouldn't play the extra long rail with the attempt to get above it. Seems like an opprotunity to get straight on the 7 and make the 8 tough. On a fast table I would reconsider this...

I'd play the two rails after the 6 from the same spot you did, but play for center table or slightly beyond. Up and down off the 7 to the 8 is simple enough.
 
Nice.... the only difference I have is the shape on the 7. I wouldn't play the extra long rail with the attempt to get above it. Seems like an opprotunity to get straight on the 7 and make the 8 tough. On a fast table I would reconsider this...

I'd play the two rails after the 6 from the same spot you did, but play for center table or slightly beyond. Up and down off the 7 to the 8 is simple enough.
I usually agree with most things you post but not this time. You'll never see a top pro play this situation the way you're describing. It decreases the MOE on position for both the 7 and the 8.
 
I usually agree with most things you post but not this time. You'll never see a top pro play this situation the way you're describing. It decreases the MOE on position for both the 7 and the 8.
To be fair to me... You'd never see a top pro play on the carpet I normally do...lol.

I did measure my response with "On a fast table I would reconsider this..." ;)
 
We're not needlessly making the 6 more difficult, we're balancing difficult out between two shots. Instead of a tough transition off the 7, we have two routine transitions.

Playing to the middle of the table for the 7 isn't automatic. Even if you get perfect it isn't easy to control the cue ball's path and hit the side rail coming up for the 8 ball. Where the 7 ball is lying is really trappy because if you make a slightly thinner or thicker hit into the pocket it really messes up your speed and direction. Then you can end up straight a lot of the time because there is no way to not just cinch your shape on that path. Straight on the 8 leads to another 75% shot, either a rail first, or a short side shot on the 9. And that's assuming you get good on the 7. If you get thinner, thicker, or longer on the 7 than you want (or stretched with the bridge) it becomes tougher. Shooting it from the line of the 6 ball (being too full) leads to increased speed, and the rolling cue ball is arcing and fighting the rebound, it is really goofy. Get too thin where you have to use inside or something and that becomes tough. And distance would lead to inaccuracy on the hit and you can catch the 7 too thick or thin.

FORGET THAT! I'm playing a natural path off the 6. I have a huge landing zone with two rails that kill all of my speed. From there I am close to the 7 and can make an accurate hit with a natural transition to the 8, all while preserving an angle!

You couldn't have watched the video. I ran this out the same way 9/10 time and my only mistake was snubbing the cue ball once. I also took a student who was 5/10 here and got him to 8/10. I don't mind debating ideas but I'm the kind of guy to test things on the table. If you can demonstrate on the table how getting to the middle of the table and playing 1 rail off the 7 is easier I'll be openminded, but If you're not willing to set it up and try it 10 times and compare that with my attempts then I'm not going to be swayed here.
 
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To be fair to me... You'd never see a top pro play on the carpet I normally do...lol.

I did measure my response with "On a fast table I would reconsider this..." ;)
LOL. Thanks JV. Even on slow cloth I think the 6 to the 7 is a breeze. You hit it thin and use a spinning running english which helps with speed. You can't really overhit it because the last 2 rails make the target almost unmissable for me.

But yeah, if I'd have to shoot break speed then all bets are off!
 
You couldn't have watched the video. I ran this out the same way 9/10 time and my only mistake was snubbing the cue ball once. I also took a student who was 5/10 here and got him to 8/10. I don't mind debating ideas but I'm the kind of guy to test things on the table. If you can demonstrate on the table how getting to the middle of the table and playing 1 rail off the 7 is easier I'll be openminded, but If you're not willing to set it up and try it 10 times and compare that with my attempts then I'm not going to be swayed here.
LOL. Thanks JV. Even on slow cloth I think the 6 to the 7 is a breeze. You hit it thin and use a spinning running english which helps with speed. You can't really overhit it because the last 2 rails make the target almost unmissable for me.

But yeah, if I'd have to shoot break speed then all bets are off!
Ok, so first off I did watch the video in it's entirety...lol. I don't disargee at all with the your pattern. All I'm saying is that my table is very slow, and if I come up straight at all on the 7 I can not produce enough pace to work the pocket, shoot through the 7 and get the CB back to the bottom rail. Albeit not pro quality, I do have a decent power game, but my table is just that dead...lol

If I do get above the 7, then ya no problem. Below without some serious angle, I'm in trouble..., on my table.

Oh, and I did say "up and down" off the 7, but what I had in my head was 2 rails. The short obviously and the long to the left of the table (as pictured).
 
Here is Tin Man discussing this same pattern(6-7-8), time:1:57:20.

In the video he posted today, it looks like the 7 is closer to the short rail than it does in the diagram. It looks like he just needs to get maybe one diamond from the pocket, not necessarily on the short rail.
 
Here is Tin Man discussing this same pattern(6-7-8), time:1:57:20.

In the video he posted today, it looks like the 7 is closer to the short rail than it does in the diagram. It looks like he just needs to get maybe one diamond from the pocket, not necessarily on the short rail.
Hahaha! Caught me recycling this example. It was spur of the moment with Chris but it inspired my pattern puzzle. It was fresh so I thought it was a good example of how to avoid 75% shots that will sink you.
 
Many people stop getting better at pool because they didn't realize they missed a turn. They keep on doing what worked for a while and when it stops working they reach the wrong conclusions.

When a player first learns pool they have to keep learning new shots. People keep showing them new things. "Hey, did you ever try hitting it this way?" "If you're ever in this spot here's a cool shot..." Etc. And little by little they acquire the tools they need to deal with those challenges on the table. Killing the cue ball, throwing balls in, playing multiple rail routes, using inside english. At first they are terrible at some of these shots, but they keep at them and the make percentage continues to climb.

So their formula for improvement is set: Keep learning new shots and keep improving at them. This works for a time. They do keep learning more shots, and they do keep improving. But then a funny thing happens. The improvement tapers off. Slowly at first, and then screeching to a halt. They have days where everything works and, knowing all the shots, they feel the issue is 'consistency'. They just can't figure out why they can't put their game together to where it works more than once in a while. They are good enough to win sets off the top local players, but why can't they become the guy who wins match after match until they are the last man standing?

Do they question their approach? No! It got them this far! Everything was working just fine until they got stuck. They take a lesson from a top player they end up learning a few obscure trick shots and think they benefitted because they did technically learn something. They work with an instructor and often end up believing it is all fundamentals. They decide that consistency stems from fundamentals, so they go all in. Then you see people go down really weird rabbit holes. They read books and watch videos and spend countless hours lagging the cue ball to the head rail and staring at their back arm. Practice becomes miserable and the game starts becoming harder and grindier. Maybe they show a little improvement and that, coupled with their occasional good sessions, convinces them they are still on the right road. But as the years start to roll by and it is clear they aren't making progress then they fall back to blaming it on a lack of time or talent. "The only way I could get to the next level is if I put in a TON more time than I have right now. I can't put pool in front of family/work so this is where the buck stops". Or "I guess some people just have the extra something, lord knows I've worked as hard as anyone but it just wasn't meant to be for me".

Of course you need to develop your fundamentals, put in work at the table, and it helps to have two eyes and two arms. But having worked with many, many players in this range I will die on the hill of saying that isn't the biggest problem. The problem is they missed the turn a while back.

The path they need to take forward involves less shots, not more. See, in the beginning you really did need to learn all the shots. So learning more shots was a good thing. And developing your skills at them was critical too. But only to a point! Because after you stall out you need to read the signpost: There is a limit to how consistently you can execute each different shot! Some are 99% shots, some are 90% shots, some are 75% shots, and some are 50% at best. No amount of time and no stance is going to change the fact there are limits on our make percentages on these difficult opportunities.

So how to make progress? Well, first it's good idea to start to identify which shots are which. Instead of saying "I should be able to make all of these, better keep working on that stroke until it comes together for me", get real! Say "Man, some of these shots are going to cause me to lose a lot of games if I build my runs with them!" Learn which shots are high percentage and which shots are low percentage.

Next, let's take a good look at the 99% and the 90% shots. You need to get really good at these. Not just pocketing, but really fighting for every inch with the cue ball. You need to become deadly accurate with these types of shots. Why? Because great pool comes from committing to building and executing runs with only 90%+ shots! If you play to a zone that ends up with a 75% shot and then miss, it is silly to conclude "I should've made that". WRONG! You can never make that 100% of the time. Quit fighting it! Instead go to the 95% shot where you missed your cue ball target and left yourself a tester. Sure you were the favorite. But if you take two 75% shots a rack you are now a coin flip to dog it every time you step to the table. No way to make that consistent.

In short, first put together a great set of shots, then put most of them away. Recognize that improvement comes from improving cue ball accuracy with high percentage shots that allows you to avoid gambling on tougher maneuvers. With my most advanced players that is all I do, help them sort out which shots are which, work on maxing out the percentages by understanding the nuances of the high percentage shots, and then demonstrating how to build runs that stick to those shots only.

It's not sexy. It's a lot more glamorous to teach someone a cool double the rail spin shot than it is to break down routine cue ball transitions and help identify where you can pick up a few percentage, or which of two similar moves is slightly more accurate and can get you better speed control. I sometimes feel for my most advanced players (who are coming to learn new things) they find themselves paying me to take tools away from them. But that is what needs to be done. Less tools, less shots. They only feel disappointed until they realize they aren't turning over the table as often and it is coming easier.

Then they see the new road in front of them. It is a different direction from that of the first half of their pool journey, but fortunately it leads to the pool game they've always wanted.
@Tin Man I don't know if I should be angry with you for telling me things I don't want to hear, or be happy with you for telling me what I need to improve. 😂

Very good post! I also wonder if this is why a lot of people see improvement by trying out straight pool or equal offense. It kind of teaches you both these "cinch" shots and how to maneuver the cueball with great precision. There isn't as much wild CB movement as in 9B, but it teaches you those little annoying shots/leaves that seems like something you should take for granted. It also gets you thinking more about patterns and safety valves for the event when you miss shape.

Thanks for the post, great info here that isn't often talked about.
 
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@Tin Man I don't know if I should be angry with you for telling me things I don't want to hear, or be happy with you for telling me what I need to improve. 😂

Very good post! I also wonder if this is why a lot of people see improvement by trying out straight pool or equal offense. It kind of teaches you both these "cinch" shots and how to maneuver the cueball with great precision. There isn't as much wild CB movement as in 9B, but it teaches you those little annoying shots/leaves that seems like something you should take for granted. It also gets you thinking more about patterns and safety valves for the event when you miss shape.

Thanks for the post, great info here that isn't often talked about.
Thanks Boogie!

Yes, small things matter. For example, you have a ball hanging on the side and the next ball is on the side rail. If you draw back too far you get thin on the next ball and it is harder to make or control the cue ball. If you stop on the first shot you get straight on the next ball and end up trapped on the side rail which increases the difficulty of the next shot as well as limiting your cue ball options (directly by cutting off the lower half of the cue ball and discouraging sidespin, and indirectly by forcing you to put more focus on making the next ball). How many runs have ended in this way?

Better would be to take it very seriously to get 2-4 inches back.

Best would be to play an angle that allows you to cut the ball slightly and stun diagonally away from the side pocket on the line of the angle you want. This increases your target zone as well as uses a tool that is easier to control (stun vs draw).

But most players would see the hanging ball, then the next ball, and rely on a 75% maneuver (the draw shot), and once in a while things would go south. Then they'd miss the shot from the rail (another 75% shot) and say "I should've made that".

When people fight me on this I just remind myself this is my competition...

I'll just add the same rules apply for moving the cue ball up and down the table. In 9 ball you have to travel, that doesn't mean there aren't higher and lower percentage ways of moving around. You have to have a tool set that will do all you need, but there are always better and worse ways to do it.
 
Next, let's take a good look at the 99% and the 90% shots. You need to get really good at these. Not just pocketing, but really fighting for every inch with the cue ball. You need to become deadly accurate with these types of shots. Why? Because great pool comes from committing to building and executing runs with only 90%+ shots! If you play to a zone that ends up with a 75% shot and then miss, it is silly to conclude "I should've made that". WRONG! You can never make that 100% of the time. Quit fighting it! Instead go to the 95% shot where you missed your cue ball target and left yourself a tester. Sure you were the favorite. But if you take two 75% shots a rack you are now a coin flip to dog it every time you step to the table. No way to make that consistent.
cold game for the people..thanks tm
 
Hahaha! Caught me recycling this example. It was spur of the moment with Chris but it inspired my pattern puzzle. It was fresh so I thought it was a good example of how to avoid 75% shots that will sink you.

I wasn't knocking you for it. Your knowledge is worth something. I wish I had time to go through your boot camp. Thank you for sharing what you have for free.
 
I think my run out try would be exactly same as Tin Man on that. I think it would be exactly same on 95% of pros too. Nice example.
Anyways good theory on topic. Next step is hardest. How to implement concept to part of practice/play.
Get more precise position from easy balls to keep it easy is what we all strive for. There is just so much on that to learn that it sounds easy to do but it is a lot of work.
I still agree most of the thoughts that less is more.
Especially that our high expectations are our worst enemy. We put ourselves to high pressure when we expect to always perform top gear. That is not gonna happen and we will crack more easily under pressure then. Also joy from game disappears and that can lead even quitting game totally. We should do our best. Some days it is not gonna be much, but keep trying and don´t shark yourself out from game with expectations.
 
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