is it advantageous for the cb to leave the slate during the break shot?
- Thread starter evergruven
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I can relate to a little hop. when I break, I often have success hitting the cb just a bit above center, it hops, and usually stays around the table middle
there is a pro who's great at keeping the cb on the table, but after hitting the rack, it'll zoom with top back towards downtable and just stop- maybe alex?
I have a buddy that has a monster break. I mean ridiculously powerful break. He can hit with such power and pop that CB with such control it blows my mind. Rest of his game is meh... but man that break....lol
Like Fran said earlier. The break is rack/table/rule dependant. I think any top tier pro can hit that break you're speaking of, if the situation calls for it.
Do you know what happens an awful lot when you break? The 1 ball winds up on the top rail, leaving you with no shot if you stick the cb in the middle of the table. Ask Johnny Archer. He figured that out a long time ago, and created a break shot that sent the cb to the side rail and back for perfect position on the 1 ball that nearly always landed on the top rail. This was before players started soft breaking. It was how he became famous for stringing racks.
Yeppers... Was dealing with this very thing yesterday while working on my 9 ball break.
My goal on both 1 on spot or 9 on spot (template) is to miss the side pocket with the 1 and send it to the opposite top corner. No hopping CB on this break. I don't bother attempting to generate excessive power. Just enough to get the 1 to that corner area.
1 on the spot, the wing ball goes so it's an easy matter of keeping the CB away from traffic, so I can see that corner area cleanly. Probably 90% to drop that wing ball. 2 ball (racked at bottom) comes to the top rail as well. More often than not the problem is random clusters preventing the full clearance.
9 on the spot is a tad more random. The cut that I have to use is sharper, so the draw and outside spin are much deeper. That said, the 1 still heads towards the top corner. However getting a ball to drop (where the wing goes with 1 on spot) is more random, maybe 50%. This break results in 3 balls heading toward the bottom corner and typically (50%) one of them gets kicked in. 2 ball (racked at bottom) normally gets kicked around and stays at the bottom. Makes the shot from 1 to 2 contain heavy traffic.
Both the above breaks are generally done with my player, not breaker. Rather have the added control than a tad more power.
Now the 10 ball break, is swung at from just off the head spot. Square contact on the 1, and the popping break is used.
Won't the cue ball hop if
a. the cue ball is coming down when it hits the head ball, or
b. the cue ball hits the table just before hitting the head ball, and is going up when it hits the head ball?
How do you tell the difference from evaluating the hop you get?
Yes
Well I would think that if you hit the head ball on the way up, you probably stand a better chance of launching the CB off the table. I would also think the break shot would either need to be very powerful to nearly reach the head ball before bouncing, or very weak to bounce mulitple times the last being just in front of the head ball.
I've never had the problem of a extremely hard break.
The ball hop probably originated from people with very good strokes hitting the cue ball as 'hard" as they could. This was a natural effect with the big ball in those days. That hop was about as coupled as the break could be hit. I work on the hop because I like doing it. Turns out it doesn't take much force at all. More like a golf swing - learned that principle from trying to copy John McChesney's break. Finally started getting it recently.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I've heard it described as a tip of bottom stroked like you would a follow shot. Supposedly the CB touches the cloth a bit less so friction is less. I don't know if I subscribe to this idea though. I'd rather have the CB behave better so I'm sure to hit where I want on the head ball.
That pop and hop does look pretty impressive and it could be a good head game on the right opponent. I used to break this way and could get a great spread. It did feel like I hit them much harder, but I'd guess it's could just be a placebo effect. I've since started breaking differently. Lined up on the 3rd ball in the rack (on 8) and hit to where the head ball and second row tries really hard to head for the side pocket. The trouble is, if you hit poorly, so does the CB. If hit correctly, it stops mid table.
Maybe with slow cloth and no template rack there would be a difference?
That pop and hop does look pretty impressive and it could be a good head game on the right opponent. I used to break this way and could get a great spread. It did feel like I hit them much harder, but I'd guess it's could just be a placebo effect. I've since started breaking differently. Lined up on the 3rd ball in the rack (on 8) and hit to where the head ball and second row tries really hard to head for the side pocket. The trouble is, if you hit poorly, so does the CB. If hit correctly, it stops mid table.
Maybe with slow cloth and no template rack there would be a difference?
Biggest problem I have breaking is bar rackers. That one's hopeless. Often RYO is not an option or it has to go out to the parking lot. Drunk really brings out the dumm in poolers. Anyway, worn cloth, wood rack, if they manage to freeze it (huge if) I break from direct center, I go for the air return ball. The goal being a perfect 180 degree return and nothing else; not making a ball - nothing. I think I've done that 3 or 4 times in hundreds of breaks but what I learn about my stance and delivery is worth the empty breaks.
If they are simply unable to rack satisfactorily, I use the second ball break with a normal down on the stick delivery. Strategically that one's probably the better option anyway. It makes a ball or two and since it's a half table game, big advantage to the first shooter. Also being directly coupled to the struck ball, the 8 goes in a lot.
If they are simply unable to rack satisfactorily, I use the second ball break with a normal down on the stick delivery. Strategically that one's probably the better option anyway. It makes a ball or two and since it's a half table game, big advantage to the first shooter. Also being directly coupled to the struck ball, the 8 goes in a lot.
Playing 8-ball on a 9ft I always second ball break. On a tight rack the balls spread extremely well and the pot % is decently high. On a loose rack the table tends to side load with clusters, which is generally in my favour. 8-ball is my best tactical game.
On a barbox I'll break straight on, with a pop. The pop not in a effort to park the CB but more so hopefully keep it from being kicked into a bad spot. If the barbox is racking really well, then I'll switch to the second ball break. Same reasons for why I do it on the 9ft, but on a barbox it's nearly a certainty to drop something from the second ball. YMMV
On a barbox I'll break straight on, with a pop. The pop not in a effort to park the CB but more so hopefully keep it from being kicked into a bad spot. If the barbox is racking really well, then I'll switch to the second ball break. Same reasons for why I do it on the 9ft, but on a barbox it's nearly a certainty to drop something from the second ball. YMMV
That's the first time I've heard that one.... I guess it has some merit in physics, but never heard anyone claim such a technique
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
It's in "The 8-Ball Book" by The Monk. It's odd, but it seems to give good results, it's easier to do than to describe.
To me "stroked like a follow shot" means hit above center. What does it mean with "a tip of bottom"?
pj
chgoi
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boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Think of it sort of like putting follow on a jump shot, but to a lesser degree. There's no way I'm going to be able to put it into words and I'm not sure where the book went, so I can't reference how he described it in the book. It did have decent results, as it hit the head ball, the CB always "popped" up a bit and didn't go wild, usually just died a few inches to a foot back from where the head ball was. It "felt" like the CB was hovering off the surface a bit and dropped back to the slate just as it hit the head ball. If that's what was actually happening or not, I don't know.
Thanks, but...
To put follow on a jump shot you have to hit higher on the CB than you do on a normal follow shot - either way the elevated stick has to be aimed above the CB's 3D center (center of mass). So I still can't tell what you mean by "a tip of bottom"...?
pj
chgo
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Yeah, I said I couldn't describe it, sorry. It was clear and concise in the book but I have no idea where I put the book, might have loaned it out.
edit: whoopsy
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boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
If my memory is correct, it looks like it.