I believe some instructors can actually ruin your game!

[PracticeChampion]

Yeah I seen it but in a Different subject. Seen a kid in baseball that could hit, catch and throw better than any kid I've ever seen in years. I'd bet he was gonna at minimum get a full ride to college but the Parents or someone thought it be a great ideal to hire an instructor and for weeks this guy went to work to change his swing and throw to look more professional I guess, whatever that is. Kid was still good but no longer great and couldn't even find his way back to his natural self. So yeah I believe an instructor/pro can definitely make things worse if you already have natural talent

 

[dardusm]

I think it's one of the hardest parts of teaching. If the student is newer then blowing up their fundamentals to develop an orthodox approach is the right way to do it. When working with more advanced players let's say APA 6 or better, then it becomes a case by case basis. My criteria has always been to develop a repeatable stroking motion. Do they have a repeatable stroking motion at different speeds? If they do then I generally won't fix what isn't broken. I'll try to tweak some things like cleaning up the stroking motion itself such as slower pull back on the hit swing.

When I went through the instructors program a big key was fixing elbow drop. I've always had elbow drop so I tried to fix it by pinning it. I do think there is value of having a pendulum swing but for me personally changing it was a great challenge as I've been doing it for 30 years. A very well known instructor told me that it could be done in a few weeks with some committed practice. Nope, notta, no chance. For me, changing my stroking motion had other consequences such as losing my cue ball I've developed over the years due to my stroke. I would have to re learn everything. I'm lucky if I can practice a few hours a week let alone practicing enough to make this a habit. I studied many of the top players and only a small percentage have no elbow drop. Again, I think a pendulum swing has its benefits but it needs to be a case by case basis.

On one other note, I was watching the World Pool Championships yesterday and Kelly Fischer was commentating. She tried to make a change from a pinned elbow to a dropping one in order to create more power. She couldn't do it for the same reasons I couldn't do the opposite. It's interesting that some European instructors teach elbow drop vs. American instructors that view the elbow drop as a negative. My point to this whole thing is the answer of the question is do you have a repeatable stroking motion at different speeds? If you answer yes then don't change it, if no then make the change. Many players will engage their cue into their bodies when they use a hard stroke creating inconsistent hit on the cue ball. This needs to be fixed otherwise they won't be consistent on hitting the hard shots.

 

[buckshotshoey]

If you can beat your instructor, be leery.

Have to disagree. Mark Wilson is considered a top notch billiard Instructor.
He has successfully instructed many top pros. Even though he can probably play a hell of a game, he would admit he couldn't beat most of them.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Yeah I seen it but in a Different subject. Seen a kid in baseball that could hit, catch and throw better than any kid I've ever seen in years. I'd bet he was gonna at minimum get a full ride to college but the Parents or someone thought it be a great ideal to hire an instructor and for weeks this guy went to work to change his swing and throw to look more professional I guess, whatever that is. Kid was still good but no longer great and couldn't even find his way back to his natural self. So yeah I believe an instructor/pro can definitely make things worse if you already have natural talent

If an instructor works on one thing at a time, the students will be more successful. Changing many things at once can really hurt.

 

[PracticeChampion]

If an instructor works on one thing at a time, the students will be more successful. Changing many things at once can really hurt.

Yeah and I think that's what happened in this case.
I seen the other side of it too. Dee Adkins as of lately is mostly working with kids in there pool game and has a heck of a group of kids coming up in all ages, doing great things with there game and youth billiards in general.

 

[ceebee]

Is a Pig PORK...., it can happen to anyone.

 

[nataddrho]

How do you become better at any sport?

Both the student and an instructor need to work together as a team to understand the process. Much further than just the physical procedural advice that gets carbon copied and we are all familiar with, is attitude, inner peace, focus and determination. Your body isn't a programmable machine, its an emotional psychological living thing.

All masters of their sport, mind and body have realized it is an inner journey that requires immense dedication, mindfulness and heart. It all needs to be taken into the space of awareness simultaneously.

Those players (or instructors) whom can only can see outcome based results are missing the true beauty of athletics.

 

[nataddrho]

Come to think of it, awareness was and is really what I am trying to sell with the DigiCue. I don't want everyone to have the same type of fundamentals, because that isn't pool. Electronics tend to automatically self-market themselves as gimmicks and quick-fixes, and not so much as tools that will actually cause you to work harder.

I think that my message never got fully promoted and marketed as strongly as I would have liked when being sold by OB.

 

[hang-the-9]

Come to think of it, awareness was and is really what I am trying to sell with the DigiCue. I don't want everyone to have the same type of fundamentals, because that isn't pool. Electronics tend to automatically self-market themselves as gimmicks and quick-fixes, and not so much as tools that will actually cause you to work harder.

I think that my message never got fully promoted and marketed as strongly as I would have liked when being sold by OB.

I have used the DigiCue to show players what they had issues with or to illustrate the need for a good stroke. The result is that they quit using the DigiCue since it kept buzzing to show their flaws instead of trying to fix the flaws LOL If your car makes noise, turn up the radio, it's easier than fixing the car LOL

 

[chefjeff]

The student learns only what he's ready to learn.


Jeff Livingston

 

[ChrisinNC]

I'm not talking about instructors no one has heard of but well known to the pool world. I will not mention any names.

I'll use one example and I have at least 3 but one will get my point across. I had a friend who was a very good player, watched
him beat a couple of pros years ago. He was having some problems with pattern play and needed some work on his break. He went
to a well known instructor who completely changed his stance, grip, etc. He was told that it would feel uncomfortable but keep
practicing and it would get better. It did not, and he got so mixed up he couldn't find his way back to his pre-instruction days. He quit!

I've had lessons with pros and the instructor would make major changes in a lot of student's games but mainly would tell the pro to keep their
head down, pause a little longer and so on when on video the pro's fundamentals weren't that good, but the instructor would say 'but he delivers
straight through the ball'

A lot of players have been playing many, many years and are quite accomplished just like some pro's, and do not need a complete makeover just a few
tweaks in their game but in my opinion they are treated differently.

Sounds like that player may not have stuck with the changes the instructor had him doing for a long enough period. He may indeed have been a very good player, but if he had flaws in his fundamentals or stroke, that very possibly could ultimately make it very tough for him to continue to improve his game to higher levels, particularly if his game has already plateaued.

If you make the decision to go to an instructor, you should do your homework to make sure they are highly qualified. If you are already a good player, you are likely doing so because you realize there are some aspects of your game, either fundamentals, alignment or stroke that may be holding you back and need to be addressed, and your pool game is important enough a priority to you to seek out an instructor. You must be committed and trusting to stick with the changes that instructor is recommending, with the realization and acceptance that it might take six months or more of hard work to start paying off.

Most players are too impatient and are not willing to make that commitment and put in the months of work that may be necessary for these changes to work, particularly for players that have been doing it a certain way for years with some level of success.

 

[nataddrho]

I have used the DigiCue to show players what they had issues with or to illustrate the need for a good stroke. The result is that they quit using the DigiCue since it kept buzzing to show their flaws instead of trying to fix the flaws LOL If your car makes noise, turn up the radio, it's easier than fixing the car LOL

There are many people who have never learned how to learn.

One person once said to me "...it just sounds like way too much work. It's much easier if I just keep hitting balls." I replied "you mean like Sisyphus?". He said "I've been playing this game for 40 years, I'm no sissy!"

True story.

 

[justnum]

No one should be surprised when the instructor says to do specific drills with a specific focus.

Instructors dont fix you, they just tell you what is broken and how to work on it.

 

[lfigueroa]

I believe it is absolutely essential the student goes into a lesson, whatever the endeavor, with a clear picture of what they want to gain from the instruction.

And when the instructor launches into the same old standard canned crap they've been feeding every guy that has signed up for a lesson, they need to say, "Stop! This is what *I* want to learn.'' IOWs, a good student must always have an active role in achieving goodness from the lesson. I have seen far too many guys come into the pool hall and be fed that same stuff every other player has been fed, whether it applies to what they want to learn or not. That is BS and a waste of the student's money.

I've taken a few lessons, from guys like Dallas West and Ray Martin. When I walked into Dallas West's studio he asked, "So what do you want to work on." And this was before he had any idea of my skill level. It was the same with Ray Martin. No idea how I played. But his first words were, "So what are we doing?" Both these masters were brilliant enough to know that I needed to get what I wanted from the lesson rather than feeding me the same ol' same ol'.

But regrettably, I see student after student getting cookie cutter lessons. To me, that means there's a problem with the instruction, but more importantly, the student is not doing their due diligence -- the student should *always* be an active, equal participant when it comes to learning.

Lou Figueroa

 

[tim913]

No one should be surprised when the instructor says to do specific drills with a specific focus.

Instructors dont fix you, they just tell you what is broken and how to work on it.

Instead of calling them drills it’s pool study

 

[justnum]

Instead of calling them drills it’s pool study

I consider pool study a little more than the free advice given.

Pool study is more ghost teacher.

Instead of seeing a shot and thinking how much do I need to practice because this shot won't be used while sitting against a Hall of Famer or current World Title Holder.

Pool study is more about the player and developing your player focus.

Submit a response to the Billiard Aptitude Test and I will evaluate you.

I presented the above argument because its the phrase DrDave uses when he wants you to admire his youtube channel and notice how highly rated he his when using his own measurement of success.

I can introduce you to the Ghost Teacher but I have to channel the spirit and then you will find out if you are a worthy vessel.

 

[tim913]

I consider pool study a little more than the free advice given.

Pool study is more ghost teacher.

Instead of seeing a shot and thinking how much do I need to practice because this shot won't be used while sitting against a Hall of Famer or current World Title Holder.

Pool study is more about the player and developing your player focus.

Submit a response to the Billiard Aptitude Test and I will evaluate you.

In an earlier post you said drills are now called pool study but now it’s ghost teacher. What will they be called tomorrow?

 

[justnum]

In an earlier post you said drills are now called pool study but now it’s ghost teacher. What will they be called tomorrow?

After I am dead it will just be posted on youtube and linked from my AZB profile account.

 

[tim913]

After I am dead it will just be posted on youtube and linked from my AZB profile account.

I’m sure you’re impressed with yourself, at least someone is!

 

[JB Cases]

Not quite sure what you're trying to say there, but if you're not good at what you do, the free market will oust you eventually. Don't try to tell me you've made it in the billiard industry based on your people skills. LOL!

I used to think like you. The truth is that you can make it in the billiard industry by flat out lying to people and the lack of oversight and doing just enough to satisfy a percentage of the people you deal with is plenty enough to make a decent living in this industry. My "people skills" used to be along the lines of the customer is always right so I kissed everyone's ass trying to sell my stuff. Somewhere along the way I stopped working for everyone else and started working for myself. So today I don't have put my lips to anyone's ass in order to extract a few bucks from them. I don't have to lie, exaggerate or lay down the bullshit to sell my stuff. But I could make shitty cases and lie about them and make even more money if I chose to. That's the harsh reality that most consumers don't get. It is way way way easier to build shit and lie about it to maximize profit than it is to build good stuff that is truly dependable. And when someone does build good stuff then it's easy to knock them off with a shitty version and lie about the knockoff's quality.

In the instructor world it's easy to make a name for yourself even if what you teach is the same old tired stuff they were teaching in 1972. There are barely any recognized coaches in pool who not only can accurately assess ability but also who are known for producing championship caliber players.