Mcdermott Defy Shaft

briankenobi said:
Too bad you didn't look at the table and the balls that were hit. That is on a carom table, which has a thinner cloth and are usually heated, which makes them spin longer. I myself have done 55 seconds on a carom table with a wooden carom shaft. The record that Florian hit is a legit Guinness World record that was done on a pool table with normal cloth that is hot super thin or heated.

Here is the official record video btw.

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Lol.

Thinner cloth and heating effects a ball rotating on its axis? How so?

If he had a carbon shaft, would it have spun longer? If his stroke was straight, like only Florian's is, would it have spun longer?

Oh, you know the condition of the table how? If that's his house, isn't that Las Vegas? One of the hottest and dryest places in Earth?

Also, there are other videos....
 
Thresh said:
Lol.

Thinner cloth and heating effects a ball rotating on its axis? How so?

If he had a carbon shaft, would it have spun longer? If his stroke was straight, like only Florian's is, would it have spun longer?

Oh, you know the condition of the table how? If that's his house, isn't that Las Vegas? One of the hottest and dryest places in Earth?

Also, there are other videos....
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Less friction, less resistance. Thicker cloth has more fiber in contact with the ball. Thinner cloth has less.
 
Also, why can I masse better with a masse cue than with my playing cue?
 
I asked a similar question a bit ago. Basically between the answers I got and info from Dr Dave's site, while the stiffness of a cf shaft doesn't necessarily spin the ball more it does transfer more energy to the ball, which in turn, given the same amount off center the ball is hit, produce more spin.
The distinction made is it doesn't produce more spin if you define spin as the ratio of spin to how much energy reached the ball, but spin for the same stroke with cf would produce more energy so more spin overall for the same stroke. https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/cf-shafts-and-spin.535463/#post-7068986
To me, there are strongly tapered maple shafts which probably are as stiff as I can take advantage of, and I've spent some time with a revo 12.9.
 
dendweller said:
I asked a similar question a bit ago. Basically between the answers I got and info from Dr Dave's site, while the stiffness of a cf shaft doesn't necessarily spin the ball more it does transfer more energy to the ball, which in turn, given the same amount off center the ball is hit, produce more spin.
The distinction made is it doesn't produce more spin if you define spin as the ratio of spin to how much energy reached the ball, but spin for the same stroke with cf would produce more energy so more spin overall for the same stroke. https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/cf-shafts-and-spin.535463/#post-7068986
To me, there are strongly tapered maple shafts which probably are as stiff as I can take advantage of, and I've spent some time with a revo 12.9.
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How much more energy transfer? 1%, 50%? This is very easy to measure, take a stroke and smack a force measuring device, kinda like the punching bag game at the bar. Do you really think there will be they significant difference between the two? I don't believe so, which is why I refer to it as negligible.

If it was that much of a difference everyone would only be using a CF break cue as the results would be 100% clear.
 
Shuddy said:
Less friction, less resistance. Thicker cloth has more fiber in contact with the ball. Thinner cloth has less.
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I agree... For a rolling ball. We are talking about a ball spinning in place, like a top.

I would say age of cloth over thickness. I don't believe thicker cloth really make more contact with the ball, surface area of the ball touching the cloth is the same. 860HR plays faster and last longer than regular 860, and is thicker.
 
Thresh said:
Cue is shorter, Reinforced shaft for the abuse.

That's like asking why does my jump cue jumps better than my playing cue
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Not really. Masses rely on spin. Jump cues rely on a rock hard tip bouncing a ball off the slate.
 
Thresh said:
How much more energy transfer? 1%, 50%? This is very easy to measure, take a stroke and smack a force measuring device, kinda like the punching bag game at the bar. Do you really think there will be they significant difference between the two? I don't believe so, which is why I refer to it as negligible.

If it was that much of a difference everyone would only be using a CF break cue as the results would be 100% clear.
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Don't know the percentage or whether there is any definitively. I think you're the first person I've seen be so sure of themselves on this subject. Do you have any proof you'd like to offer up?
 
Thresh said:
I agree... For a rolling ball. We are talking about a ball spinning in place, like a top.

I would say age of cloth over thickness. I don't believe thicker cloth really make more contact with the ball, surface area of the ball touching the cloth is the same. 860HR plays faster and last longer than regular 860, and is thicker.
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Oh, also, carom balls are larger and heavier, which would contribute a lot to them spinning longer on the spot.
 
Thresh said:
How much more energy transfer? 1%, 50%? This is very easy to measure, take a stroke and smack a force measuring device, kinda like the punching bag game at the bar. Do you really think there will be they significant difference between the two? I don't believe so, which is why I refer to it as negligible.

If it was that much of a difference everyone would only be using a CF break cue as the results would be 100% clear.
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Surely someone, somewhere, has performed a test such as this....
 
Shuddy said:
Oh, also, carom balls are larger and heavier, which would contribute a lot to them spinning longer on the spot.
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3.5mm larger. I understand and know why a larger diameter object can spin longer.

The question is, what does the extra 3.5mm mean? Is that significant? Meaningless?

The difference between the two balls is very small. So how much of an effect on spin would that small difference actually have?
 
Thresh said:
If Dr Dave hasn't done it, the test hasn't been done. That's my general feedback from the pool community.

The amount of myths people believe in pool is unreal.
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A average carom ball weighs about 20% more than a pool ball, the idea that that much weight wouldn't effect how long it will spin is a myth.
 
Thresh said:
3.5mm larger. I understand and know why a larger diameter object can spin longer.

The question is, what does the extra 3.5mm mean? Is that significant? Meaningless?

The difference between the two balls is very small. So how much of an effect on spin would that small difference actually have?
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I was saying that in support of a non tip/shaft/cloth explanation of why dudes on carom tables are juicing balls up for a minute.
 
Shuddy said:
As a matter of interest, have you played on a nice 10 foot carom table with a heated bed and something like simonis 300?
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I don't know the thread count, but yes I have.

I've also played in the Dominican on very nice tables. Humidity makes balls crawl.
 
Thresh said:
I don't know the thread count, but yes I have.

I've also played in the Dominican on very nice tables. Humidity makes balls crawl.
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So just be clear on this, carom balls on carom tables maintain spin on the cueball much more than pool balls on a pool table, regardless of cue being used. You just have to watch some pro carom to see someone play a 5 cushion shot and the cueball grabbing the 5th cushion and spinning over with just enough speed to move the target ball an inch or two. I think we can agree this a thing?

Why is this so?
 
Shuddy said:
So just be clear on this, carom balls on carom tables maintain spin on the cueball much more than pool balls on a pool table, regardless of cue being used. You just have to watch some pro carom to see someone play a 5 cushion shot and the cueball grabbing the 5th cushion and spinning over with just enough speed to move the target ball an inch or two. I think we can agree this a thing?

Why is this so?
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I agree the balls travel farther. As I said before, rolling on a surface and spinning in place are two different things.

Bringing cushions into to mix won't help clear the waters...

As I asked before, the ball is 3 to 3.5mm larger. Little bit heavier. How much of an effect on spinning a ball in place will that have? 1%? 50% 10 seconds more? 50 more RPMs?

If the ball is heavier, won't it take more stroke power to get it to spin? How much more? Assuming you are already stroking both balls at 100% because you are trying to set a record, does that offset the increase spin you expect to gain from the ball being larger and heavier?

And if we want to bring this conversation full circle, the carbon shaft generates more spin than wood how?
 
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