True warrior? Or social media diva? The root of the Jayson Shaw debate.

[pw98]

I think I've figured out why people feel so differently about Jayson's run. It goes far beyond pocket size and touches on something else: Many people, including myself, find the movement of influencers a little distasteful. Attention seeking behavior, combined with false portrayals of reality.

My daughter went through this in middle school. It used to be there were airbrushed supermodels on magazine covers and TV. That was bad enough. Now all of her class-mates can take 1,000 pictures of themselves with selfie-sticks, edit them using image enhancement apps, then post a picture that is half real and half cartoon. Beauty standards went from impossible to total fantasy. And there has been a growing rate of depression and self harm (measured by hospitalizations, not diagnosis) among girls younger than ever. It's really gross.

The same thing is happening with pool. Many people are trying to build a following in pool. It makes sense. If you're a tournament player it's hard to pay your way from tournament to tournament. Why not share a bit of your journey with your fans, and in turn be rewarded with a bit of support along the way? But it's hard to get people's attention, and it's getting harder. What's a pool player to do?

Well, to keep up they have to 'air-brush' their own performances a bit. It starts with Darren and Thorsten posting themselves completing impossible looking drills, or guys shooting ridiculous trick shots. Now the new standards have been set, and many of the masses have followed suit. I've seen it so many times, pretty soon you have some local player that records 1,000 sets of themselves against the 10 ball ghost, then takes the one set where they win 5-0 and post it on YouTube and Facebook like "Oh, this is just me hitting balls around, let me know what you think of my game..." I can tell it took 1,000 takes because of how the balls were run and how many hard shots they had to make.

This just leads to an environment where everyone is playing magic rack 9 ball on new slidy cloth, breaking in 2-3 balls with a stop shot, then posting their 1,000th take showing a '5 pack with no ball in hand!!!!!!!!' This also seems to be one of the drivers behind bar tables, handicaps, and many other things that have tried to let everyone feel they have summited the mountain of pool.

I haven't sorted all of this out in my own head. Where does it go from being a genuine warrior on the tournament trail trying to add value to their fans by sharing their journey and helping others with theirs, and end up being insecure shortstops posting up delusional portrayals of their own performances to indulge their ego and desire for validation?

I ask myself this all the time. I like to think I am in the first camp. I train for a living. As a result I have to get my name out to the masses so I have clients I can provide services for. For that reason I have joined in on a podcast and collaborated with some YouTubers. I try to keep grounded. I think overall I do ok because deep down I have no desire for centrality. Or if I do I hate that part of myself and only reluctantly do things to drive business. I told my friend yesterday that if I knew for sure I'd never struggle to fill my calendar with students then I'd go off the grid tomorrow. And I know where I stand. I don't cherry pick performances to portray a false reality, and I try not to indulge in any attention or positive feedback I ever get. It's not black and white, I'm sure I'm impacted a non-zero amount, but far less than most because I truly find attention to be a necessary evil associated with maintaining my business.

I think a lot of people feel the way I do. They work hard jobs every day with no thanks, they go home and practice without any cameras rolling, then they go play strong opponents on tough equipment where it takes a good hit to draw your ball and if you do the balls will rattle out if not struck perfectly. This is the reality for most pool players. Lots of adversity, very little glory. So to see players doctoring up equipment to be super soft and taking hundreds of tries to post up a high water mark, this is just rather confusing.

There seems to be a line crossed somewhere. When does it go from a genuine competitor sharing some of their journey to a wannabe make believing they are a champion? I don't know. And maybe not everyone cares. Just things I think about.

Getting back to Jayson Shaw, I definitely put him in a 'real competitor showcasing an amazing display and inviting us to partake in it' category. This was the highest confirmed straight pool run ever, end of story. And it was on a 9', not an 8'. So to me this is the real deal and speaks for itself. But some people have lumped it in the 'attention seeking' category. Because the table was unnaturally soft. Because he took a lot of attempts. These are the people that say Willie Mosconi was the 'real deal' because he was just doing this as his job, and happened to run 526, and he rarely went after big runs. This is their way of saying he wasn't trying to attention seek or go for FaceBook likes, he was just awesome.

I don't agree that Shaw's run should be minimized in any way, but I think I understand where they're coming from. It has less to do with the pocket size, and more to do with a growing distaste for attention seeking egomaniacs. I share their fatigue, I just don't put Shaw in that camp.

I want everyone to understand there are both in this world. Real competitors sharing their journey, and insecure attention seekers. Both are trying to build a following for different reasons. Just because they both post stuff on social media doesn't mean they are all the same. Maybe if people recognized not everything posted on social media is an attention grab we could agree Jayson's run was amazing and deserves to be in the 'true competitor' camp regardless of conditions.

Recently a youtube contributor on another pool board claimed in one of his videos he breaks and runs 30-50% of his racks on a good day. I have watched him enough and he obviously doesn't from how hard he makes relatively easy things. So I called him out on it. The response wasn't pretty. He promptly told me to die and then his fan's showed up to attack me. He never addressed the criticism though, he never does, he just deflects with threats. He also deletes any comment on his youyube videos that doesn't literally praise him. He is so fake its a joke. I won't name him here because this will devolve but some people probably know who I'm talking about.

 

[pw98]

Tinman I agree with most of what you have posted.

Appleton and or Thorsten showing impossible drills becoming possible shows that with practice amazing results can be achieved. Tinman has to agree with that message?

This whole high run show is a dig at John Scmidt and Mosconi. Maybe others see it differently but I believe the incentive to run it is not purely to increase interest in pocket billiards,14.1,or in the players participating.

Dig at John Schmidt (juiced table), Mosconi (8 foot table) and whoever put on the high run challenge (super juiced table). It wasn't Jayson's idea to put the table together. John on the other hand...

 

[tomatoshooter]

Unfortunately the bar is raised so high that if you were to see a famous youtuber miss a shot, you will also see them be roasted mercilessly

Niels Feijen will show his drills ending or admit something took him two tries. I do agree that the current media environment does seem to deny flaws and emphasize perfection while hiding what it took to get there. I was talking about watching some matches on youtube and a guy asked me "Why do you torture yourself like that?" It's tough shooting at home because I'm the only one I see missing.

 

[boogieman]

Niels Feijen will show his drills ending or admit something took him two tries. I do agree that the current media environment does seem to deny flaws and emphasize perfection while hiding what it took to get there. I was talking about watching some matches on youtube and a guy asked me "Why do you torture yourself like that?" It's tough shooting at home because I'm the only one I see missing.

Niels youtube channel is a breath of fresh air. I do like how he approaches misses. He won't waste our time making us watch them, but he lets you know that the shot took however many tries and gives props to whoever shot it in one go under match conditions. He seems like a really good dude, I'd love to meet him someday.

 

[Nick B]

Niels youtube channel is a breath of fresh air. I do like how he approaches misses. He won't waste our time making us watch them, but he lets you know that the shot took however many tries and gives props to whoever shot it in one go under match conditions. He seems like a really good dude, I'd love to meet him someday.

I was thinking that myself. He says it...I did it on my third attempt...I also like when he acts up and hangs his head in shame when he shows what not to do. I have met many a pro and many great dudes with some ass-hats mixed in for law of averages. Just like life.

Deme/TinMan. Great post. I'm practicing my 14.1 and coming for you my friend. My new job should bring me into your area more often.

 

[ShootingArts]

As for my AZB posts, I consider this a natural conversation of things on my mind with my circle of friends. Honestly I'm a bit uneasy about the 'like' button on AZB. It probably engages more posts because people like the feeling of recognition when they see the notification bell, but it's a slippery slope. Is incentivizing participation with dopamine shots a negative if it achieves more content? Or do the ends not justify the means?

I don't have answers. I think it's time to shut up and go back to work. That feels right to me.

I don't like the "Like" button nearly as much as the old rep button simply because the rep button let you include a short note which clarified why you sent it. I use the like button because I like something, or to let somebody know my post in less than 100% agreement is polite conversation not an attack, or to acknowledge I saw a post that doesn't need a reply. Probably two or three more reasons I might use the like button and the others are equally ambiguous. If I hit mad or sad is it because the post makes me mad or sad because somebody posted it or is it the events that the post is about that makes me mad or sad? Seems like a high level of ambiguity with the buttons.

Hu

 

[DeeDeeCues]

You would be wrong.

Lou Figueroa

Might be wrong, but you emptied a case of colon cleanse crapping all over the previous record. Combine that with the timing and you'll have a hard time spinning it to avoid the logical conclusion.

Now, about those affidavits from the zero people who saw every ball drop, the video analysis to prove that it wasn't doctored, proving that the steam want on time delay, and arguing that the 526 is still the one record to rule them all.

Or does your hypocrisy know no bounds?

 

[Shuddy]

Recently a youtube contributor on another pool board claimed in one of his videos he breaks and runs 30-50% of his racks on a good day. I have watched him enough and he obviously doesn't from how hard he makes relatively easy things. So I called him out on it. The response wasn't pretty. He promptly told me to die and then his fan's showed up to attack me. He never addressed the criticism though, he never does, he just deflects with threats. He also deletes any comment on his youyube videos that doesn't literally praise him. He is so fake its a joke. I won't name him here because this will devolve but some people probably know who I'm talking about.

Who who who??

Diamond Dave does it first time or not at all.

EDIT: It can’t be Shakira, he seems too nice. But it must be somebody with a large channel if they have attack fans.

EDIT 2: Also, if you tell me, Diamond Dave will make a video for them.

 

[skogstokig]

Niels youtube channel is a breath of fresh air. I do like how he approaches misses. He won't waste our time making us watch them, but he lets you know that the shot took however many tries and gives props to whoever shot it in one go under match conditions. He seems like a really good dude, I'd love to meet him someday.

one thing i've always liked about niels and also ralf is that when they miss in a pool match they march straight back to their chair, no lingering, no drama.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

Warrior all the way.
How's this even a question lol?

 

[tomatoshooter]

Niels Feijen will show his drills ending or admit something took him two tries. I do agree that the current media environment does seem to deny flaws and emphasize perfection while hiding what it took to get there. I was talking about watching some matches on youtube and a guy asked me "Why do you torture yourself like that?" It's tough shooting at home because I'm the only one I see missing.

I love when he demonstrates the wrong way to play a shot "Has this ever happened to you?" dogs a shot and slumps over the table dejectedly. I agree, his teaching style is excellent and very personable.

 

[tomatoshooter]

he breaks and runs 30-50% of his racks on a good day

I break and run 100% of my racks on a good day.

Get up... rack balls... break and run... go back to bed, not going to improve on that.

 

[lfigueroa]

Might be wrong, but you emptied a case of colon cleanse crapping all over the previous record. Combine that with the timing and you'll have a hard time spinning it to avoid the logical conclusion.

Now, about those affidavits from the zero people who saw every ball drop, the video analysis to prove that it wasn't doctored, proving that the steam want on time delay, and arguing that the 526 is still the one record to rule them all.

Or does your hypocrisy know no bounds?

Just your take -- meh.

Lou Figueroa

 

[boogieman]

you'll have a hard time spinning it to avoid the logical conclusion.

Just out of pure curiosity, what is the logical conclusion? Did you use logic to reach that conclusion, or does your emotions have a part in your conclusion?

 

[Shuddy]

Niels youtube channel is a breath of fresh air. I do like how he approaches misses. He won't waste our time making us watch them, but he lets you know that the shot took however many tries and gives props to whoever shot it in one go under match conditions. He seems like a really good dude, I'd love to meet him someday.

Agree, he does seem like a really nice dude. And I think we can safely assume that Lakey “The Inventor” (right name?) didn’t play three consecutive one handed corner pocket to corner pocket draw shots on his first try. Although, given that he did do three consecutively, who knows? Btw, those 3 shots is one of the sickest things I’ve seen on a pool table. Most things I see on a pool table I can replicate pretty quickly as long as they don’t involve ridiculous masse shots (EDIT: or jump shots). I tried this shot 3 or 4 times and pretty quickly realized it was never going to happen.

https://fb.watch/aIL6bohFPq/

 

[pw98]

Who who who??

Diamond Dave does it first time or not at all.

EDIT: It can’t be Shakira, he seems too nice. But it must be somebody with a large channel if they have attack fans.

EDIT 2: Also, if you tell me, Diamond Dave will make a video for them.

lol. not diamond dave...I'm tired of having my life threatened so im not going to name names...

 

[tomatoshooter]

Agree, he does seem like a really nice dude. And I think we can safely assume that Lakey “The Inventor” (right name?) didn’t play three consecutive one handed corner pocket to corner pocket draw shots on his first try. Although, given that he did do three consecutively, who knows? Btw, those 3 shots is one of the sickest things I’ve seen on a pool table. Most things I see on a pool table I can replicate pretty quickly as long as they don’t involve ridiculous masse shots (EDIT: or jump shots). I tried this shot 3 or 4 times and pretty quickly realized it was never going to happen.

https://fb.watch/aIL6bohFPq/

How does he do that? I can't get any draw on a ball more than 4 diamonds away. I hit as hard as I can and don't get enough spin. I aim the tip a little lower and have to patch the drywall.

 

[Ghosst]

Recently a youtube contributor on another pool board claimed in one of his videos he breaks and runs 30-50% of his racks on a good day. I have watched him enough and he obviously doesn't from how hard he makes relatively easy things. So I called him out on it. The response wasn't pretty. He promptly told me to die and then his fan's showed up to attack me. He never addressed the criticism though, he never does, he just deflects with threats. He also deletes any comment on his youyube videos that doesn't literally praise him. He is so fake its a joke. I won't name him here because this will devolve but some people probably know who I'm talking about.

Are you sure that's really the way it happened? Because I was there when you went crazy on Reddit Paul.

 

[logical]

I think I've figured out why people feel so differently about Jayson's run. It goes far beyond pocket size and touches on something else: Many people, including myself, find the movement of influencers a little distasteful. Attention seeking behavior, combined with false portrayals of reality.

My daughter went through this in middle school. It used to be there were airbrushed supermodels on magazine covers and TV. That was bad enough. Now all of her class-mates can take 1,000 pictures of themselves with selfie-sticks, edit them using image enhancement apps, then post a picture that is half real and half cartoon. Beauty standards went from impossible to total fantasy. And there has been a growing rate of depression and self harm (measured by hospitalizations, not diagnosis) among girls younger than ever. It's really gross.

The same thing is happening with pool. Many people are trying to build a following in pool. It makes sense. If you're a tournament player it's hard to pay your way from tournament to tournament. Why not share a bit of your journey with your fans, and in turn be rewarded with a bit of support along the way? But it's hard to get people's attention, and it's getting harder. What's a pool player to do?

Well, to keep up they have to 'air-brush' their own performances a bit. It starts with Darren and Thorsten posting themselves completing impossible looking drills, or guys shooting ridiculous trick shots. Now the new standards have been set, and many of the masses have followed suit. I've seen it so many times, pretty soon you have some local player that records 1,000 sets of themselves against the 10 ball ghost, then takes the one set where they win 5-0 and post it on YouTube and Facebook like "Oh, this is just me hitting balls around, let me know what you think of my game..." I can tell it took 1,000 takes because of how the balls were run and how many hard shots they had to make.

This just leads to an environment where everyone is playing magic rack 9 ball on new slidy cloth, breaking in 2-3 balls with a stop shot, then posting their 1,000th take showing a '5 pack with no ball in hand!!!!!!!!' This also seems to be one of the drivers behind bar tables, handicaps, and many other things that have tried to let everyone feel they have summited the mountain of pool.

I haven't sorted all of this out in my own head. Where does it go from being a genuine warrior on the tournament trail trying to add value to their fans by sharing their journey and helping others with theirs, and end up being insecure shortstops posting up delusional portrayals of their own performances to indulge their ego and desire for validation?

I ask myself this all the time. I like to think I am in the first camp. I train for a living. As a result I have to get my name out to the masses so I have clients I can provide services for. For that reason I have joined in on a podcast and collaborated with some YouTubers. I try to keep grounded. I think overall I do ok because deep down I have no desire for centrality. Or if I do I hate that part of myself and only reluctantly do things to drive business. I told my friend yesterday that if I knew for sure I'd never struggle to fill my calendar with students then I'd go off the grid tomorrow. And I know where I stand. I don't cherry pick performances to portray a false reality, and I try not to indulge in any attention or positive feedback I ever get. It's not black and white, I'm sure I'm impacted a non-zero amount, but far less than most because I truly find attention to be a necessary evil associated with maintaining my business.

I think a lot of people feel the way I do. They work hard jobs every day with no thanks, they go home and practice without any cameras rolling, then they go play strong opponents on tough equipment where it takes a good hit to draw your ball and if you do the balls will rattle out if not struck perfectly. This is the reality for most pool players. Lots of adversity, very little glory. So to see players doctoring up equipment to be super soft and taking hundreds of tries to post up a high water mark, this is just rather confusing.

There seems to be a line crossed somewhere. When does it go from a genuine competitor sharing some of their journey to a wannabe make believing they are a champion? I don't know. And maybe not everyone cares. Just things I think about.

Getting back to Jayson Shaw, I definitely put him in a 'real competitor showcasing an amazing display and inviting us to partake in it' category. This was the highest confirmed straight pool run ever, end of story. And it was on a 9', not an 8'. So to me this is the real deal and speaks for itself. But some people have lumped it in the 'attention seeking' category. Because the table was unnaturally soft. Because he took a lot of attempts. These are the people that say Willie Mosconi was the 'real deal' because he was just doing this as his job, and happened to run 526, and he rarely went after big runs. This is their way of saying he wasn't trying to attention seek or go for FaceBook likes, he was just awesome.

I don't agree that Shaw's run should be minimized in any way, but I think I understand where they're coming from. It has less to do with the pocket size, and more to do with a growing distaste for attention seeking egomaniacs. I share their fatigue, I just don't put Shaw in that camp.

I want everyone to understand there are both in this world. Real competitors sharing their journey, and insecure attention seekers. Both are trying to build a following for different reasons. Just because they both post stuff on social media doesn't mean they are all the same. Maybe if people recognized not everything posted on social media is an attention grab we could agree Jayson's run was amazing and deserves to be in the 'true competitor' camp regardless of conditions.

That can't be all of it because I had no idea any of that goes on in pool.

I'm doing my part by ignoring Facebook, Instagram, TicToc and whatever else is going on. It's all garbage with zero redeeming value.

People need to remember that if you are on the internet and aren't the customer then you are the product.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[pw98]

Are you sure that's really the way it happened? Because I was there when you went crazy on Reddit Paul.

View attachment 626685

Oh yes I'm sure it is 100% how it happened. If you want I can show the posts... But you probably don't want that because you already would have if what you are implying was true.

Go make more videos where you lie to your fans that you can sustain B&Ring 50% of your racks for 30 racks in a row Darin. Oh yea and of course you never show more than 1 consecutive rack run..... don't worry they believe you....at least the ones who didn't have their comments erased did.