Discussion anyone?

[straightline]

Two Surprising Pool Tips You Probably Haven’t Heard Before - News - AZBILLIARDS.COM

Pool is a sport that oftentimes gets overlooked. In reality, pool is a highly complex activity, and the number of calculations and theorems that professional pool players manage to conjure up during every single game is truly mind-boggling. In this article, we will be telling you two surprisin

www.azbilliards.com

Clickbait title but whatever...

I don't think either of those points is in question but juggling those two premises requires some see saw and proportioning. I bias heavily on mechanical and technical issues. That's where I'm at; might as well work on it. The idea is learn the craft. Competition takes a back seat to simply improving. Every time you improve another bunch of jocks becomes irrelevant. Don't need whoopins to make me learn.

As for the luck of the greats; not even relevant. They've honed their skills so their performances can reach tour de force. They are far better prepared to navigate the treachery of their society. Still Skill...

 

[BC21]

Lu

Two Surprising Pool Tips You Probably Haven’t Heard Before - News - AZBILLIARDS.COM

Pool is a sport that oftentimes gets overlooked. In reality, pool is a highly complex activity, and the number of calculations and theorems that professional pool players manage to conjure up during every single game is truly mind-boggling. In this article, we will be telling you two surprisin

www.azbilliards.com

Clickbait title but whatever...

I don't think either of those points is in question but juggling those two premises requires some see saw and proportioning. I bias heavily on mechanical and technical issues. That's where I'm at; might as well work on it. The idea is learn the craft. Competition takes a back seat to simply improving. Every time you improve another bunch of jocks becomes irrelevant. Don't need whoopins to make me learn.

As for the luck of the greats; not even relevant. They've honed their skills so their performances can reach tour de force. They are far better prepared to navigate the treachery of their society. Still Skill...

Pool players are the best at overestimating their skills and underestimating the role of luck. I have to say, however, that I believe we often make our own luck - good or bad - simply based on the level of attention or awareness we give to what's happening or what could possibly happen. But even with excellent awareness skills we often have to rely on getting just the right amount of speed or just the right amount of spin to pull off certain shots. And that's where chance comes into play.

I've pulled off some pretty amazing stuff over the last 35+ years, defensive and offensive, whether making an impossible looking shot or planning and excuting miracle pinpoint postion, and I've always tried to be honest with people by telling them it's mostly luck.

I mean, experience and practice gives you the knowledge and understanding needed to pull off incredible shots here and there, but unless you can make a particular shot 70 or 80% of the time or better, luck or chance plays a role in the outcome.

 

[Ratta]

Lu

Pool players are the best at overestimating their skills and underestimating the role of luck. I have to say, however, that I believe we often make our own luck - good or bad - simply based on the level of attention or awareness we give to what's happening or what could possibly happen. But even with excellent awareness skills we often have to rely on getting just the right amount of speed or just the right amount of spin to pull off certain shots. And that's where chance comes into play.

I've pulled off some pretty amazing stuff over the last 35+ years, defensive and offensive, whether making an impossible looking shot or planning and excuting miracle pinpoint postion, and I've always tried to be honest with people by telling them it's mostly luck.

I mean, experience and practice gives you the knowledge and understanding needed to pull off incredible shots here and there, but unless you can make a particular shot 70 or 80% of the time or better, luck or chance plays a role in the outcome.

Well chosen words matey-
it s all about *percentages* at the highest level of pool (ofc also at lower levels). Sometimes you know that *it could need a tiny bit of luck* to hit it perfectly- and there are such days, where everything seems to work perfectly.

But what is fact- your attitude is a decision, your own decision. And here awareness is something you can use and should also learn about

 

[boogieman]

Well chosen words matey-
it s all about *percentages* at the highest level of pool (ofc also at lower levels). Sometimes you know that *it could need a tiny bit of luck* to hit it perfectly- and there are such days, where everything seems to work perfectly.

But what is fact- your attitude is a decision, your own decision. And here awareness is something you can use and should also learn about

I've also learned that confidence in a shot, even if you have no idea what will happen for sure, produces much more luck than tentative play.

In 9B, if I am left with no idea what to do, no real offensive or defensive percentage, I'll often just confidently go for a half ball hit with proper speed and maximum inside or outside english, depending on what feels better. It's surprising how often a ball sinks or leaves the opponent a ridiculously difficult shot or a very good safe. I'll freely admit to whoever I'm playing that "well I have no idea, let's see what the ol' half ball hit does." It often leaves them incredulous from the luck that happens. Now of course this isn't all the time, but if I were to guess, a confident half ball hit with maximum english will result in "luck" for me 2/3 of the time. I've been called the luckiest f***er on earth several times, but it's hard to believe it's anything lucky going on when it's the same half ball hit every time.

You gotta use the right speed, which is somewhere in the range of a soft Corey Deuel style break and soft enough to not tempt any scratches, or hard enough to park the cue ball in a kick and stick type situation.

 

[The_JV]

I haven't read everything, but in my humble opinion. There is no such thing as luck.

"Luck", is the product of the direct efforts of the shooter. Whether or not the shooter was/is aware of how the variables they're putting into play will determine the outcome, is of little consequence. Players that are "more lucky" simply have a tendency to play in a haphazard fashion. Players that "don't get lucky" play in a more controlled manner.

So in essence... Luck is a unit of measure = to ignorance.

 

[BC21]

I haven't read everything, but in my humble opinion. There is no such thing as luck.

"Luck", is the product of the direct efforts of the shooter. Whether or not the shooter was/is aware of how the variables they're putting into play will determine the outcome, is of little consequence. Players that are "more lucky" simply have a tendency to play in a haphazard fashion. Players that "don't get lucky" play in a more controlled manner.

So in essence... Luck is a unit of measure = to ignorance.

In my experience, players that are considered "lucky" aren't haphazard players. I am considered a "lucky" player quite often. The reason why is because I pay attention and recognize and understand the likelyhood of certain outcomes. That's not haphazard.

"Unlucky" players are typically those who tend to ignore obvious pitfalls and fail to visualize or understand what they're doing.

 

[boogieman]

In my experience, players that are considered "lucky" aren't haphazard players. I am considered a "lucky" player quite often. The reason why is because I pay attention and recognize and understand the likelyhood of certain outcomes. That's not haphazard.

"Unlucky" players are typically those who tend to ignore obvious pitfalls and fail to visualize or understand what they're doing.

Some players are extremely lucky, but scratch just as much as the luck. Then there are the "lucky" ones who often make crazy stuff but never scratch. It's all about creativity and playing "what would happen if" while you're examining the shots. If you have a general idea of "what could happen" you'll probably get more luck than the unseen just happening willy-nilly.

Sure, there are many unexpected things that can happen, or slight miscalculations, slight speed problems etc.

As for "unlucky" players, that's my favorite type of opponent. I'll often 2 way into shots where they have to pull off some magic to hit/make the OB, but with a high scratch percentage. Everyone can recognize an obvious scratch shot, but it becomes much harder to recognize a scratch if it's off a kick shot where the CB will naturally carom into a "big pocket." Setting traps can be subtle, usually the more subtle the better, even down to making dead ends where there is no option for shape or to shoot off a blocker etc. The key to many good traps is to not even respond to them or acting slightly upset that you gave them such a good shot. Of course setting traps won't win games if you can't get out when the time is right, but they do go a long way if you get someone who falls for them.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Two Surprising Pool Tips You Probably Haven’t Heard Before - News - AZBILLIARDS.COM

Pool is a sport that oftentimes gets overlooked. In reality, pool is a highly complex activity, and the number of calculations and theorems that professional pool players manage to conjure up during every single game is truly mind-boggling. In this article, we will be telling you two surprisin

www.azbilliards.com

Clickbait title but whatever...

I don't think either of those points is in question but juggling those two premises requires some see saw and proportioning. I bias heavily on mechanical and technical issues. That's where I'm at; might as well work on it. The idea is learn the craft. Competition takes a back seat to simply improving. Every time you improve another bunch of jocks becomes irrelevant. Don't need whoopins to make me learn.

As for the luck of the greats; not even relevant. They've honed their skills so their performances can reach tour de force. They are far better prepared to navigate the treachery of their society. Still Skill...

I hear you but I would redact from "The Harsh Truth: Skill Isn’t Everything" to "read books/take lessons because knowledge is everything".

I would redact from "Pool Takes a Long Time To Master" to "speed the time with a good lesson."

 

[straightline]

Forgot about this thread. I think notifications are broken. As to luck, the players with more headroom may appear lucky because their craft encompasses more outcomes. This is not to be confused with Crossroads variety outrageous fortune but a more subtle force where balls lay in positions that suit your style of play; your default ball paths. Trainwrecks are easy to avoid when they roll right.

 

[The_JV]

In my experience, players that are considered "lucky" aren't haphazard players. I am considered a "lucky" player quite often. The reason why is because I pay attention and recognize and understand the likelyhood of certain outcomes. That's not haphazard.

"Unlucky" players are typically those who tend to ignore obvious pitfalls and fail to visualize or understand what they're doing.

We're definitely talking about different things. However ignorance of opponent is still playing the largest role in 'luck' imo.

Your example of being lucky, actually isn't. You're making choices that your opponents don't understand that are providing potential alternative outcomes. So, yes, they are ignorant of the type of game you choose to play and label you incorrectly. When I coin 'lucky' I mean players that gain the tiny benefits of hitting a shot with excessive power, poor aim and/or bad CB control. That haphazard play increases the likelyhood of "luck" because A) They are more prone to miss, and B) the pace they opt to hit the shot allows for more opprotunity to generate a positive outcomes. However in either example, the shooter is choosing to play the way they are.

As an opponent, you can either coin what you don't understand as "lucky" or take a moment and realize that "luck" is just a result of style of play. If someone considers your specific style of play as lucky, then they simply have no clue what they are talking about. In my version, luck can actually be considered a unit of measure to guage a Bangers ability to play the game....lol

I didn't get into what "unlucky" is. Again, though it's a matter of not understanding consequence/haphazard play.

 

[BC21]

We're definitely talking about different things. However ignorance of opponent is still playing the largest role in 'luck' imo.

Your example of being lucky, actually isn't. You're making choices that your opponents don't understand that are providing potential alternative outcomes. So, yes, they are ignorant of the type of game you choose to play and label you incorrectly. When I coin 'lucky' I mean players that gain the tiny benefits of hitting a shot with excessive power, poor aim and/or bad CB control. That haphazard play increases the likelyhood of "luck" because A) They are more prone to miss, and B) the pace they opt to hit the shot allows for more opprotunity to generate a positive outcomes. However in either example, the shooter is choosing to play the way they are.

As an opponent, you can either coin what you don't understand as "lucky" or take a moment and realize that "luck" is just a result of style of play. If someone considers your specific style of play as lucky, then they simply have no clue what they are talking about. In my version, luck can actually be considered a unit of measure against to guage a Bangers ability to play the game....lol

I didn't get into what "unlucky" is. Again, though it's a matter of not understanding consequence/haphazard play.

I don't know... It's been my experience that the haphazard bangers you're talking about get more bad rolls than good rolls. And when they run into trouble, or scratch, they believe see it as a bad roll or an unlucky occurrence, rather than something they had could've foreseen or controlled.

Throughout my entire life people have called me lucky. I find a $50 bill on the side of the road and a friend laughs and says, "You're so lucky!". But the truth is, he walked right by it, just as countless others walked right by it, none of them paying attention to their surroundings, none of them being very observant. What most people call good or bad luck is actually the result of a person's observation skills, not luck.

 

[The_JV]

What most people call good or bad luck is actually the result of a person's observation skills, not luck.

...and that is exactly my point as well. We are only differentiating on the situation prior to the lack observation/knowledge.

 

[bbb]

when someone misses a shot and the cueball leaves you snookered not because he played good shape on the next ball
is that good/bad/no luck?

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Think skill is more important then
Luck.

People who are good at any sport, and top profiteers.

Work hard at their job, or sport.

 

[BC21]

when someone misses a shot and the cueball leaves you snookered not because he played good shape on the next ball
is that good/bad/no luck?

That's reality. Lol. As Forrest Gump said, "Shit happens."

 

[The_JV]

when someone misses a shot and the cueball leaves you snookered not because he played good shape on the next ball
is that good/bad/no luck?

As Brian already said, that's just reality. If anything I'd coin it as good luck for you. Gives you perspective on the ability of your opponent.

 

[The_JV]

Pondering the notion of 'luck' or a lack there of. I think the only things you could equate to luck may be outside forces beyond the control of the players.

Case in point: Opponent only managed not to snooker themselves because of a piece debris the CB hits

1. ..because you didn't pick up debris when you first noticed it or cleaned the table prior to play
2. ..the debris was actually a fly that landing during the course of the shot

Senario 1 isn't lucky even though the odds of hitting the debris in the correct manner are extremely unlikely. Senario 2 is 'lucky' because there was simply no way of knowing/controlling the position of the fly.

 

[boogieman]

when someone misses a shot and the cueball leaves you snookered not because he played good shape on the next ball
is that good/bad/no luck?

They created the luck (aka it's not luck at all but skill) if they knew it was a possibility. Playing 2 way safety for misses is part of the game. Obviously you want to make the shot, but if it misses, it's always good to provide a snooker with the next ball in sequence, or with the next ball in a location to provide a "safety valve." You gotta be shooting good and trusting your subconscious/muscle memory to get consistent results with this type of 2 way play. When it works, those "lucky" leaves can be devastating to the mental game of certain types of opponents. I don't recommend relying on this, but if you can ever 3 foul someone with "accidental" snookers/safeties it's a pretty humorous situation. You might even learn how kindling is made.

 

[mrpiper]

I have found that throughout most areas of my life, the harder I work at something, the "luckier" I get.

 

[boogieman]

when someone misses a shot and the cueball leaves you snookered not because he played good shape on the next ball
is that good/bad/no luck?

To add on a little more, pool is a con game. CONcentration and sometimes plain conning your opponent. They don't know what's going on in your head and having a good poker face can keep it that way. Don't let them know if it's luck or not, let them guess and tie up their concentration on the guessing.