OB Phoenix 11.8mm 30” shaft initial review

[Gravey39]

Pretty sure the OB we have is the latest one, it was bought maybe 3 months ago. We have had 5 different keilwood shafts, two custom ones, the OB, a Hsunami and some other one. None of them have a hit or deflection like the Revo or Ignite, they all still feel like wood shafts, but are a bit stiffer. We have had a few Hsunami shafts, one of them was pretty close to the feel of the Revo and lower deflection than the other wood shafts, probably similar to a Predator 314-3, but not as little as the Z or the Revo.

The other model CF shafts are a lot more similar to wood ones, and we tried pretty much all of them either owning them for a bit, borrowing from friends or at SBE, they are really a sideways move from an LD wood shaft vs a new type of shaft, Revo and Ignite are the two I think stand out as truly different. Another pretty good CF shaft we just got is a Tickles one, on a break cue, that has a pretty good hit feel and different from a wood shaft.

Obviously the revo and ignite have lower deflection. Their carbon fiber shafts. The pheonix compared to ANY wood shaft is wayyyyyyyyy lower in deflection. I do not like carbon fiber shafts. I don’t like the feel or hit of carbon fiber shafts. There are several maple LD shafts on the market. The OB pheonix takes the cake for lowest deflection of those shafts. I have owned tons of wood low deflection shafts. I could care less about any carbon fiber shafts. Which actually the ones that I’ve tried and tested the OB pheonix has done better then those ones. I do the same test as you, except difference I use a laser line and a slow motion camera for my testing.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

12.8, it's a pretty new one, a friend of ours bought it but did not really like it so it ended up with us. We actually went through 3 of them prior they kept sending the wrong diameter and in one case a wrong length hehe, we ended up returning all those and have this one now.

So cool that you get to use all of these different shafts. Do you mind if I ask who "we" is?

I notice in another comment you ranked the LD shafts: 1) Revo, 2) Z3, 3) Ignite.
A brief search tells me the Revo could be either 11.8 or 12.4 or 12.9mm, the Z3 is 11.85mm, and the Mezz Ignite is 12.2mm (correct me if I'm wrong).

The Z3 at 11.85mm is the only wooden one out of those three.

Is it possible that you might have a different result if you compared the above shafts to the OB Phoenix-3 11.8mm, instead of the 12.8mm Phoenix that you have (even if it is a 3, which does seem likely)?

If it's not width, perhaps there are variations in quality between the same models. You mention "one Hsunami" that seemed to stick out to you - I know that's a custom shaft, but this still suggests the possibility that different shafts of the same model might hit differently.

From what I've gathered, the Hsunami shaft is solid, whereas the OB Phoenix shaft is hollow at the end (filled with foam), which would seem to at least give the potential for the OB Phoenix to be lower deflection than the Hsunami (although I would love a Hsunami, because I'm a pool luddite - if I could get a cue that was made entirely of wood where even the leather tip was glued on with tree sap or something, that would be my ideal cue).

 

[Nyquil]

I ordered a new Phoenix 30” shaft fro OB cues. One of the last 11.8mm shafts that they made. They no longer make the 11.8mm. My initial thoughts are that it’s an awesome shaft. I’ve always like the torrified wood hit. The taper is a conical/pro hybrid. You can’t really tell with the conical part unless you’re on longer shots when you’re stretched out. I don’t mind a conical taper anyways. The shaft has a very nice solid hit without any whippiness. Pairs well with my meucci. My meucci has a softer hit and with this shaft I’d say it’s right in the middle. Deflection/swerve there’s only a very small amount. Way less then the black dot that I replaced this with. So I have to get used to aiming without accounting for any deflection/swerve. I’m liking the shaft so far and it goes great with my meucci. I’ll write a review after shooting with it for a couple weeks.

Congrats on the new shaft. I am surprised so many players are going down past 12mm these days. 12.5mm is really my comfort area and you get a good pro taper at this diameter. Even as my skills progress I don't see the need to go lower. I can draw/follow and spin just fine in the mid 12's. When you get into the 11's your stroke fundamentals better be sound. 30 inch shafts definitely make playing on a 9ft much more manageable. I will not buy 29's anymore. When I build a custom I am going 30/30. Anyway heard good things on this wood curing process.

 

[Thunder Thighs]

From what I've gathered, the Hsunami shaft is solid, whereas the OB Phoenix shaft is hollow at the end (filled with foam), which would seem to at least give the potential for the OB Phoenix to be lower deflection than the Hsunami

Where did you hear that the OB Phoenix was hollow at the end?

 

[buckshotshoey]

Revo with least, the Z3 and Ignite probably next. This is based on not just with hitting with them for a test to see how full they hit a ball at other end of the table but also with how I can pocket balls with them. With just about any other shaft I need to adjust 1/8-1/4 ball off depending on distance and spin amount, that included CF shafts from Jacoby, Cuetec, Pechaur and Meucci. I also have a few custom made LD shafts that I play with well and have pretty low deflection, about the Z3 level. We have a few cases full of shafts LOL, so quite a few to test between what we actually own and from friends we try things from.

I've posted before the test I do with the shafts, place an object ball at the end of the table, place cueball on the spot, just hit to the side with a parallel shift aim, meaning I slide my bridge hand to the left or right instead of shifting my back hand, so the cue is always pointed straight at the object ball. Then I see where it hits. The Revo and the other really low defection shafts hit very close to center ball. The Phoenix hit 1/4 ball or more further out. Granted I'm not a robot, but I shoot the shots several times to try to average out the speed and aiming differences.

I think maybe you describe that not quite the way you intended to? I suppose I should point out that you're not using parallel English if you do it the way you said. Parallel English meand you have to shift front and back hands equally. Not just one or the other. What you just described is front hand English. And as Dr. Dave described it, front hand English is used as opposed backhand English when you hit softer shots

 

[Gravey39]

Congrats on the new shaft. I am surprised so many players are going down past 12mm these days. 12.5mm is really my comfort area and you get a good pro taper at this diameter. Even as my skills progress I don't see the need to go lower. I can draw/follow and spin just fine in the mid 12's. When you get into the 11's your stroke fundamentals better be sound. 30 inch shafts definitely make playing on a 9ft much more manageable. I will not buy 29's anymore. When I build a custom I am going 30/30. Anyway heard good things on this wood curing process.

I really just felt like trying the 11.8. I like it. My stroke is pretty solid. I do the ole stroke into the beer bottle trick several times a year ever since I’ve started playing pool and that was at age 9, I’m 29 now. But yes the 30” shaft is awesome on longer tables. My table at home is a true 8” I haven’t really needed the bridge at all. Except on shots that down the edge in the opposite table then me being right handed. I could do the behind the back but I’d rather take the odds with the bridge.

 

[Gravey39]

I think maybe you describe that not quite the way you intended to? I suppose I should point out that you're not using parallel English if you do it the way you said. Parallel English meand you have to shift front and back hands equally. Not just one or the other. What you just described is front hand English. And as Dr. Dave described it, front hand English is used as opposed backhand English when you hit softer shots the moment he said he shifts his front hand and doesn’t move his back hand. His deflection test was irrelevant lol. When I do the test I envision myself rolling the cue over parallel to the side of the cue ball. And doing that with this 11.8mm Phoenix shaft, I get very very little deflection. If I could post videos on here I would.

The moment he said he shifted his front hand and not the back, I knew his deflection tests were irrelevant. Dr Dave’s deflection test on YouTube states shifting the whole cue not just the front hand. I envision myself rolling the cue over parallel to the side of the cue ball. He might wanna go back through that large amount of shafts and re try the deflection test on all of those. There are probably several gems in there. When I do that with this 11.8mm Phoenix shaft, I get very very little deflection. It’s an awesome shaft. Highly recommend it to anyone that wants the perks of carbon fiber with the feel of wood

 

[Gravey39]

So cool that you get to use all of these different shafts. Do you mind if I ask who "we" is?

I notice in another comment you ranked the LD shafts: 1) Revo, 2) Z3, 3) Ignite.
A brief search tells me the Revo could be either 11.8 or 12.4 or 12.9mm, the Z3 is 11.85mm, and the Mezz Ignite is 12.2mm (correct me if I'm wrong).

The Z3 at 11.85mm is the only wooden one out of those three.

Is it possible that you might have a different result if you compared the above shafts to the OB Phoenix-3 11.8mm, instead of the 12.8mm Phoenix that you have (even if it is a 3, which does seem likely)?

If it's not width, perhaps there are variations in quality between the same models. You mention "one Hsunami" that seemed to stick out to you - I know that's a custom shaft, but this still suggests the possibility that different shafts of the same model might hit differently.

From what I've gathered, the Hsunami shaft is solid, whereas the OB Phoenix shaft is hollow at the end (filled with foam), which would seem to at least give the potential for the OB Phoenix to be lower deflection than the Hsunami (although I would love a Hsunami, because I'm a pool luddite - if I could get a cue that was made entirely of wood where even the leather tip was glued on with tree sap or something, that would be my ideal cue).

Width plays a huge part in deflection. The skinnier the shaft is at the ferrule the less mass is at the tip which transfers to less deflection I’d assume 1 whole mm would be a huge difference.

 

[buckshotshoey]

The moment he said he shifted his front hand and not the back, I knew his deflection tests were irrelevant. Dr Dave’s deflection test on YouTube states shifting the whole cue not just the front hand. I envision myself rolling the cue over parallel to the side of the cue ball. He might wanna go back through that large amount of shafts and re try the deflection test on all of those. There are probably several gems in there. When I do that with this 11.8mm Phoenix shaft, I get very very little deflection. It’s an awesome shaft. Highly recommend it to anyone that wants the perks of carbon fiber with the feel of wood

If he did the same with all shafts, the tests could be comparative and relevant, as long as the speeds of the shots were the same... AND you figured out the natrual pivot point of each cue used. I was pointing out he wasnt using parallel English the way he worded it.

If you use backhand English you are aiming away from the intended ball path and allowing deflection to correct the ball path. The problem with using backhand or forward hand English in deflection tests is the natrual pivot point of the cue being used. If you use the same pivot point for all of them, the test results would be skewed. That's why Dr Dave uses parallel English in deflection tests.

 

[Gravey39]

If he did the same with all shafts, the tests could be comparative and relevant, as long as the speeds of the shots were the same... AND you figured out the natrual pivot point of each cue used. I was pointing out he wasnt using parallel English the way he worded it.

If you use backhand English you are aiming away from the intended ball path and allowing deflection to correct the ball path. The problem with using backhand or forward hand English in deflection tests is the natrual pivot point of the cue being used. If you use the same pivot point for all of them, the test results would be skewed. That's why Dr Dave uses parallel English in deflection tests.

Yes, I use parallel English. Anything other then that wouldn’t give you real deflection results.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

Where did you hear that the OB Phoenix was hollow at the end?

The nice lady who took my order at OB told me that the end is hollow and foam-filled.
I assume they do this because it makes it more low-deflection than a solid shaft would be.

 

[hang-the-9]

I think maybe you describe that not quite the way you intended to? I suppose I should point out that you're not using parallel English if you do it the way you said. Parallel English meand you have to shift front and back hands equally. Not just one or the other. What you just described is front hand English. And as Dr. Dave described it, front hand English is used as opposed backhand English when you hit softer shots

I start with aiming on the line to the side, I don't line up straight then move only one hand. I meant I don't shift my aim from center, but line in in position of the spin.

 

[hang-the-9]

The moment he said he shifted his front hand and not the back, I knew his deflection tests were irrelevant. Dr Dave’s deflection test on YouTube states shifting the whole cue not just the front hand. I envision myself rolling the cue over parallel to the side of the cue ball. He might wanna go back through that large amount of shafts and re try the deflection test on all of those. There are probably several gems in there. When I do that with this 11.8mm Phoenix shaft, I get very very little deflection. It’s an awesome shaft. Highly recommend it to anyone that wants the perks of carbon fiber with the feel of wood

I don't just shift my hand from aiming center, I get down on the shot to the side in the first place. I guess I explained the shot wrong. What I meant to say is my bridge is on the side of the cueball not center and pivoted to the side.

 

[hang-the-9]

Obviously the revo and ignite have lower deflection. Their carbon fiber shafts. The pheonix compared to ANY wood shaft is wayyyyyyyyy lower in deflection. I do not like carbon fiber shafts. I don’t like the feel or hit of carbon fiber shafts. There are several maple LD shafts on the market. The OB pheonix takes the cake for lowest deflection of those shafts. I have owned tons of wood low deflection shafts. I could care less about any carbon fiber shafts. Which actually the ones that I’ve tried and tested the OB pheonix has done better then those ones. I do the same test as you, except difference I use a laser line and a slow motion camera for my testing.

Just because they are carbon fiber shaft does not inherently give them lower deflection than wood ones. Every other one aside from the Revo and Ignite had no less deflection than many of the wood shafts. In fact the Z3 and some others I use deflect less than most of the CF shafts I tried.

 

[hang-the-9]

So cool that you get to use all of these different shafts. Do you mind if I ask who "we" is?

I notice in another comment you ranked the LD shafts: 1) Revo, 2) Z3, 3) Ignite.
A brief search tells me the Revo could be either 11.8 or 12.4 or 12.9mm, the Z3 is 11.85mm, and the Mezz Ignite is 12.2mm (correct me if I'm wrong).

The Z3 at 11.85mm is the only wooden one out of those three.

Is it possible that you might have a different result if you compared the above shafts to the OB Phoenix-3 11.8mm, instead of the 12.8mm Phoenix that you have (even if it is a 3, which does seem likely)?

If it's not width, perhaps there are variations in quality between the same models. You mention "one Hsunami" that seemed to stick out to you - I know that's a custom shaft, but this still suggests the possibility that different shafts of the same model might hit differently.

From what I've gathered, the Hsunami shaft is solid, whereas the OB Phoenix shaft is hollow at the end (filled with foam), which would seem to at least give the potential for the OB Phoenix to be lower deflection than the Hsunami (although I would love a Hsunami, because I'm a pool luddite - if I could get a cue that was made entirely of wood where even the leather tip was glued on with tree sap or something, that would be my ideal cue).

My son plays, and loves to change shafts all the time, that is the other "we" hehe

For the Revo I tried all 3 sizes but mostly play with the 12.4, did not like the other sizes. The Phoenix I used is an 11.8 mm, if I said 12.8 it was a mistake. We actually played with 3 different diameters since the ones they sent were all wrong from the order, had a 12, had a 12.2 before the 11.8

 

[bbb]

the hsunami kielwood shaft is terrific
great feel and low deflection
i play with a revo 11.8 only because i have gotten used to its lower deflection
and dont want to spend the time adjusting to the hsunami
but the hsunami has better feel