Jayson Shaw's 714 becomes 669?

I'm pretty sure I already said that I now realise the convention for high run attempts is a continuous rack break rather than an opening rack break.

This is the kind of thing that needs to be agreed upon for "ratification" purposes. Either way (start from a continuous rack break or start mid run) could be the decision - but from a logical point of view, and for the sake of the purity of the game, my preference is the former as the latter gives free balls at the start of the run. It's maybe a moot point but if the game is going to establish "rules" for a "high run attempt" then those rules need to have some internal logic and coherence.

On another note, those who think cue ball fouls only is acceptable contribute to pool being laughed at.

I feel part of that issue is that there hasn't been a referee for these high runs -- and by that I mean a neutral individual who is not, or cannot be accused of being, beholden to the guy shooting.

So it has been CB fouls only or if you prefer, the call going to the shooter.

Lou Figueroa
 
This seems like some kind of karmic retribution for all the nitty, obsessive, obnoxious, and conspiratorial nitpicking the anti-Schmidt crew did of his 626 run.

"karmic retribution," lol.

How is Jayson now having two world records retribution?

Lou Figueroa
 
John anybody that every played 10 racks of straight pool know most runs end off the break shot....either by missing a tough break shot, scratching off the rack, sticking the cueball where you don't gave a shot or leaving a shot that is missed after the break shot.

Starting midrack is absolutely an advantage.

Really don't matter. It was a tickytac foul. Everyone will know he put up an amazing number. Maybe Lou's cloth sales will suffer...

I have nothing to do with sales -- my role is to just interact with all you lovely people here on behalf of our event.

Lou Figueroa
 
Natural selection....You wouldn't last 5 minutes with me talking like that in person.

You can't show me a high run competition starting midrack off a miss. Its been the standard for years.
Oh my bad, didn't realize you weren't paying attention to the topic at hand while trying to pass off your ramblings as fact.

See the whole thing revolves around the fact that there aren't any established standards for high run competitions.

Keep digging...lol
 
I have nothing to do with sales -- my role is to just interact with all you lovely people here on behalf of our event.

Lou Figueroa
Were you and the other people involved in the event aware of the foul prior to BCA's statement?
 
Pure bull $hit. To be the man you got to beat the man. Jason is the man. Even if the contact thing is true, fouls are on cue ball only unless you are a crybaby. And crybabies lose. Why? The rule has always been and has never changed.
Sadly, once again this forum is at the top of the bottom.
Nick :)
 
One has to ask is this in retaliation for Jason announcing unionizing the pro players?
Wow. I said it.
That would if true allow a legal recourse on the violation of Jason's right to form a union!
The charges if proven would be filed in federal court or settled and holy back door retirement!
Did things just get real?
It would be cheaper to settle than answer the charges! Usually around 350K.
I hate lawyers because the same thing happens true or false!.
If everyone is broke or uninsured there is no civil recourse that would be prudent to peruse..
Nick :)
 
Seen fights dozens of times in all ball fouls.
No way to do it without refs.

That’s just degenerates. If all tournaments were played with all ball fouls, players would learn to tuck their shirts in and use the rest.

English 8 ball, also played in Oz, is all ball fouls and is commonly played without refs for small tournaments, and also played with alcohol involved. I can’t recall ever seeing a fight break out over a non-cueball foul.

When I first started playing pool, my brain did a double take when I heard ‘all ball fouls’, like, ‘huh? is there some kind of rule where you can only on one ball?’.
 
Were you and the other people involved in the event aware of the foul prior to BCA's statement?

As I said in Post #159 in this thread:

"Back in March, Bobby flew out to Colorado to show Jayson's run to BCA officials. A committee of six watched in an executive suite Bobby had reserved, on an 70” screen. At one point someone thought there might have been an OB foul and they re-ran the tape over a half dozen times and there was still doubt. Regardless, at the conclusion of the review, a vote was taken and it was unanimously agreed upon, given the rules posted on the BCA website which clearly stated CB fouls only, the 714 would be certified as the new record."

Lou Figueroa
 
Why couldn't you see the foul and the BCA could?
Shaw said he hasn’t seen it yet, due to being heavily involved in the UK Open I guess, but he mentioned that apparently his shaft just clipped a ball he was bridging over. He wasn’t aware of it, and according to what he’s been told, you have to zoom enhance zoom enhance zoom enhance to see it happen.
 
One has to ask is this in retaliation for Jason announcing unionizing the pro players?
Wow. I said it.
That would if true allow a legal recourse on the violation of Jason's right to form a union!
The charges if proven would be filed in federal court or settled and holy back door retirement!
Did things just get real?
It would be cheaper to settle than answer the charges! Usually around 350K.
I hate lawyers because the same thing happens true or false!.
If everyone is broke or uninsured there is no civil recourse that would be prudent to peruse..
Nick :)

Some of us have a theory about how one guy at the BCA created numerous roadblocks on the path to certifying Jayson's run.

But they are only theories and not worth stating publicly. Bottomline is: Jayson is the 14.1 high run world record holder whether you count OB fouls or not : -)

Lou Figueroa
 
I've been in the background for the entire thread, and maybe I should stay there, but here it goes....

No matter what anyone says, there are NO set rules for this type of "event".
Many have said "This is the way they do it at ......". Too bad. That doesnt mean that's the way it's done everywhere. That may change of course.

If high runs have to be started from a full rack, then Mr Mosconi's high run is bogus. His record stood as the one to beat, and since he started in the middle of a rack, that is the PRECEDENT that has been in existence for almost 70 years.

And even if Jason did touch an object ball, everyone here is in agreement that I didnt move, so therefore it did NOT affect the outcome one little bit.

It boils down to a bunch of nittpickers raising a fuss over an EXHIBITION. If there is no Referee, then the rule says the call goes to the shooter, not a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks on AZ Billiards, or even anyone at the BCA.

Fact.... if a referee at a tournament misses seeing a foul, it cannot be reversed at a later date by someone watching a video tape. The 714 stands.
 
Some of us have a theory about how one guy at the BCA created numerous roadblocks on the path to certifying Jayson's run.

But they are only theories and not worth stating publicly. Bottomline is: Jayson is the 14.1 high run world record holder whether you count OB fouls or not : -)

Lou Figueroa

Can you guys post an analysis of the alleged foul?
 
One has to ask is this in retaliation for Jason announcing unionizing the pro players?
Wow. I said it.
That would if true allow a legal recourse on the violation of Jason's right to form a union!
The charges if proven would be filed in federal court or settled and holy back door retirement!
Did things just get real?
It would be cheaper to settle than answer the charges! Usually around 350K.
I hate lawyers because the same thing happens true or false!.
If everyone is broke or uninsured there is no civil recourse that would be prudent to peruse..
Nick :)

I like conspiracy theories as well, especially against the BCA and WPA, but Jason is not an employee of Matchroom (or BCA) so he lacks the typical protections of federal labor laws and retaliation claims.

Appleton's testing issues are maybe better fodder. The players do need a "list of rights" that are agreed to by the WPA to avoid a lot of the headaches we've seen in the last year.
 
Well, good morning ya all, I see everyone has been keeping busy.

So here's what I have to say:

As previously pointed out, players have traditionally start a high run attempt with a break shot, mostly because it's tradition and it makes keeping the count easy. In the case of Mosconi's run, his opponent made three balls and then Mosconi came to the table and ran 526 from an open rack. IOWs, there aren't rules for high runs, though I have reason to believe that's going to change real soon.

Back in March, Bobby flew out to Colorado to show Jayson's run to BCA officials. A committee of six watched in an executive suite Bobby had reserved, on an 70” screen. At one point someone thought there might have been an OB foul and they re-ran the tape over a half dozen times and there was still doubt. Regardless, at the conclusion of the review, a vote was taken and it was unanimously agreed upon, given the rules posted on the BCA website which clearly stated CB fouls only, the 714 would be certified as the new record.

Now it appears that after that first BCA meeting, a second committee was formed and a new vote taken. Bobby was not invited to attend. And, with a 3-1 vote, suddenly OB fouls were to be counted and the record was now 669. It is my understanding that the dissenting vote came from a professional player on the committee -- a very highly regarded Hall of Famer.

Bobby asked Jayson about the foul and Jayson said he did not foul any OBs during his run. I have watched the run and cannot tell conclusively if he rocked a ball back while jacked up over it or not. But here we are. And IMO that place is at the following coordinates: if you're going to accept the BCA moving the goal posts with a possible OB foul, then logic dictates that you must also accept his record at 669.

But there's one more thing: until someone can prove that other high runs where completed without OB fouls, that 714 still looks pretty good, IMO.

Lou Figueroa
you just know I gotta say it....

"maybe he did, maybe he didn't "

😉
 
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