Cueball tip location
- Thread starter nataddrho
- Start date
Yes of course. But I think only way to truly know is to use the trainer ball and some master/pred chalk that will mark the CB and cleaning the CB off every time.
Whats the different between the "Yes" and "Absolutely" selections? Its the same thing no?
OB pocketed + CB goes where you want it to go applies also. There's the training aspect of it where you should be analytical then there is the game side. Ideal state is when you're playing a set you can get in the zone and you're not thinking of where exactly you're hitting. In a set I'd only dive deeper into tip placement if you're not getting the results you want consistently.
Whats the different between the "Yes" and "Absolutely" selections? Its the same thing no?
OB pocketed + CB goes where you want it to go applies also. There's the training aspect of it where you should be analytical then there is the game side. Ideal state is when you're playing a set you can get in the zone and you're not thinking of where exactly you're hitting. In a set I'd only dive deeper into tip placement if you're not getting the results you want consistently.
There is always watching the tip striking the ball.
As Yogi said, "you can observe a lot by watching."
I've asked this question before (years ago), but don't remember the answer, if any:
Here's the Rempe/Aramith training cue ball with a blue circle added at the miscue limit (halfway from center to edge). What are the markings outside the miscue limit for?
pj
chgo
[Edit: Added the white CB on the right for comparison. Each white circle = 1/3 of miscue maximum.]
P.S. Sorry for detouring the thread...
Here's the Rempe/Aramith training cue ball with a blue circle added at the miscue limit (halfway from center to edge). What are the markings outside the miscue limit for?
pj
chgo
[Edit: Added the white CB on the right for comparison. Each white circle = 1/3 of miscue maximum.]
P.S. Sorry for detouring the thread...
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There is no way that blue line is a miscue limit, maybe the red line is. From this image, I am confident I can shoot at a decent speed past the outer black circle line (say over where the High or the Low text is) and not miscue much. On many shots I hit with draw or even stop shots depending on distance and speed I need, I would have the top of the tip radius curve be about where the Low text is, with the middle of the tip below the lowest black 5 line.
I do know for a fact that my aim and stoke do not line up the tip and shot exactly where I want it, my personal center of the ball is actually a bit to the left, and my hit favors going to the right a bit. This causes a lot of missed shots and also makes it harder for me to use left spin. It's just super hard for me to fix this, and I have been trying for years ever since this issue was pointed out to me.
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I think it might be for the inside part of the tip. If it was on the outside you couldn't see it.
Looking at it, that seems about right for a miscue area.
GentlemanJames
Well-known member
The thinking behind the layout of the Rempe cue ball is: 1 = Center Ball; 2 = 1/2 tip of English; 3 = 1 tip of English; 4 = 1.5 tips of English; 5 = 2 tips of English; and, the red circle is supposed to indicate the miss-cue danger zone.
When compared to the layout of the Rempe cue ball, your blue line is indicating a limit of 1 full tip of English.
Hope that helps. - GJ
Halfway from center to edge of the CB (the blue circle) is the commonly known (and thoroughly tested) miscue limit. I've tested it many times myself, trying to hit right on the upright edge of a ball's stripe (the stripe is just the right width), and checking my chalk marks afterward - could never hit outside the stripe without miscuing. Try it.
I added a normal CB to my previous post for comparison - maybe easier to see the proportions without all the extra lines.
pj
chgo
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Problem is that watching the tip during stroke and where you actually think you hit is can differ vastly, especially for the beginner/intermediate player who do not have the body/cue tip awareness as the higher level players do.There is always watching the tip striking the ball.
As Yogi said, "you can observe a lot by watching."
Draw shots for example, enthusiastic beginners will level their cue and lower bridge hand. In their eyes they are hitting the maximum low side of the ball. In their eyes they are hitting the lowest point but their CB marking will be slightly higher. More experienced players will have a higher bridge hand but slightly elevate the butt to match the curve of the tip to the cue ball which strikes the true lowest point of the CB since they are utilizing the absolute limits of the top part of the tip. Beginners will try to strike the same part using the level cue technique and miscue and think "Thats just too low".
GentlemanJames
Well-known member
Perhaps you misunderstood the purpose of my post which detailed the thinking behind the Rempe cue ball.
My post was not meant to argue nor discount your theories and personal understanding; but rather, to allow you to understand why the Rempe ball is laid-out the way it is and what the 1-5 numbered rings represent in the mind of the designers of the Rempe ball; which is 2 full tips of English in graduated 1/2 tip increments, where #5 equals 2 full tips widths of English.
Additionally, on the Rempe ball, any hit which is aimed or makes contact outside the #5 ring and inside the Red Circle is in the danger-zone and is most likely to miscue.
With your updated OP which compares the Rempe lay-out to your own lay-out, please note that the Rempe ball is using a scale based on approximately a full 13mm aiming area; whereas, your lay-out appears to based on much smaller scale of just a few millimeters, being closer to the size occupied by actual hit itself.
In comparison, the Rempe ball offers aiming zones graduating from a center ball full target zone of 13mm and expanding at intervals of 6.5mm; whereas, your diagram begins it's own first zone with a width of just a few millimeters.
Overlaying the Rempe "Zone 1" onto your layout, Rempe's Zone 1 would fully cover and eclipse your Zone 1, Zone 2, and nearly half-way to Zone 3; again, different scales.
One other thing, it seems to me the thinking behind the Rempe ball is aiming the outside-edge of the cue tip at the outside edge of the zone ring, which would result in an impact hit somewhere inside the ring zone; whereas, your ball is indicating where the hit should impact. In other words, if I am correct, the Rempe ball to teaching what to visually line-up and where to aim; whereas, your ball is showing where to hit.
Two different scales for two different intentions; one show aiming zones and one shows impact zones?
Perhaps comparing the Rempe design lay-out to your design lay-out is like comparing Apples to Oranges; or, comparing Point-of-Aim to Point-of-Contact? - GJ
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Where you strike the surface of the CB matters a lot once you start moving the CB off rails (either before or after contact.)
Where you strike the surface of the CB matters a lot when compensating for spin induced throw.
Where you strike the surface of the CB matters a lot when compensating for spin induced throw.
Th icue product (and other training cue balls) show that lots of people care. The big downside to these products is you have to rely on leaving a chalk mark on the right spot on a ball. With a high fps camera on a newer phone maybe you could capture it automatically using CV without requiring the user to use a special ball or chalk?
Huh? Who You Gonna Believe? Me or Your lieing Eyes?
My eyes give me instant feedback as to my mechanical performance. Allow for quick and even minute adjustments.
Beginning players choose their level of interest. Sometimes based on positive results. Maybe darts or uh bowling. Shuffle board? All reward precision. The precision with which I strike the cue ball is the decider.
?
The mechanics are rewards by Robotics. Well Ronnie teach something similar.
I still don't get that thinking, but no worries - thanks for the detailed explanation.
pj
chgo
Did your testing include parallel English in comparison to back hand English? It seems to me that using back hand English would change the center of the cue ball which could bring the miscue limit line closer to the center of the Rempe ball. Just a thought.
I watched a couple of guys playing with the Rempe ball, checking the chalk mark after each shot, and heard one say to the other, "I think I need a new tip, I can't hit past the 3 line without miscuing"
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
I'm almost certain you are right. Aiming the centerline of a 13mm cue at the 5 circle puts the contact at the 3 circle which is the 1/2 ball miscue limit. It's also the size of the circle on Elephant Balls training ball. I've found the chalk sticks much better to the Elephant Ball than the Rempe ball. The simpler markings make spin much easier to see also.