Future of pool stats. Live. In real time.

Come up with a single page/screen dashboard of the most interesting/revealing stats. Some numbers, some pie charts, etc.

Something that is simple enough that it could be brought up for 10 seconds and the viewer and commentators could quickly digest it.
 
garczar said:
How many of the top players of today analyze/use stats to anywhere near this level of detail? I'm betting very few if they do it at all. The AS TPI system is still more than valid. It gives one all you need to know as a player. You really think pool fans are going to want this shot-by-shot breakdown of every match they watch?
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Personally, I would not want to see all those stats on the screen, but a good commentator can look at the stats and pull out interesting ones and present them to the viewer.
 
I looked at that mass of numbers and charts, only took a few seconds to know that I would have no interest in spending the time to go through it to know any of the stats past the handful that AccuStats did. What balls made on the break is a bit interesting, but it's been done already with analyzing the break, look up the racking video by Joe Tucker and Duel did his own research although it's in his head and not published. We already know what balls can be aimed to go in during the rack, the rest are just random shots so knowing those won't matter at all since they will be just that, random. Fargo ratings also have given us very good predictability to the match outcomes without keeping track of what the player did after a safe or what pocket he made the 3 ball into most over a night of play.
 
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This looks like a very good start. Most useful analysis starts out with an abundance of data. The extrapolation will be more useful with an abundance of data developed condensed trends. Keep up the work and do not be deterred by us 'old schoolers'.
 
Tough crowd.

I get where some people are coming from. Not everyone is really interested in stats. And of those who are, many have been trained to be interested in only some of the bigger data points: Break and run %, balls missed vs pocketed, etc.

But why is that? It could be that it is because that is as deep as interest levels go. It could also be because that is effectively as deep as the TPA stats have tracked for 30 years so we have been conditioned to think that is all that is important.

I think it's quite possible that if more statistics were available we might take an interest. For example, AtLarge does a great job with stats on quite a few challenge matches. I often find it fascinating to see some of the recaps he puts together after a match. I can imagine that if the commentators and audience had more information available at the right times it could add flavor and insight into match dynamics, what to look for, and possibly even give some tools to help us improve our own games.

So I really want to give some credit for the original poster who is trying to contribute to all of our experience and clearly has put in many hours of hard work. I think some of these responses have been quite insensitive, and although it is standard on an online forum, it is still disappointing.

Me personally, I'm not all that interested in some of these details. Many of the stats I'm more interested have less to do with game play analysis and more to do with personal history (match record vs their opponent, how often a player has made this stage of an event before, whether they have been improving lately or are in a slump, etc), much of which is more aligned to FargoRate than to match observation. So at this time I'm more overwhelmed and daunted with what is being shown to us in this thread than I am excited and interested.

But 1) It is possible that if it was digested, distilled, and presented correctly I would find myself appreciating some of this, and 2) I salute OP's passion for the game and generosity in sharing his time to try to better all of our experiences.
 
garczar said:
How many of the top players of today analyze/use stats to anywhere near this level of detail? I'm betting very few if they do it at all. The AS TPI system is still more than valid. It gives one all you need to know as a player. You really think pool fans are going to want this shot-by-shot breakdown of every match they watch?
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The fact that they don’t do it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do it.
 
skip100 said:
The fact that they don’t do it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do it.
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Agreed This sort of statistical detail revolutionized baseball play, and the baseball swing itself, in the last decade. Most sports and coaching now use data driven analytics. No reason pool players shouldn't have the same opportunity.
 
kling&allen said:
Agreed This sort of statistical detail revolutionized baseball play, and the baseball swing itself, in the last decade. Most sports and coaching now use data driven analytics. No reason pool players shouldn't have the same opportunity.
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Golf is an obvious parallel. We all grew up being told things like lay up to a full shot, putt to 17 inches past the hole, drive for show putt for dough, all of which have been shown to be dead wrong.

The idea that pool players are better off just feeling the vibes rather than getting a deep understanding of exactly what shots they make and miss is transparently dumb.

That said, it is not going to be an easy task to summarize and digest this information into something that's useful for the player.
 
rexus31 said:
Analysis paralysis.

How many hours did it take you to put all this together?
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I inputted the shots as they happened Live. The information compiled Live. I can provide Live. That is the main objective: How long did it take to make this to do this? Almost 2 years. Not my full time job and lots of planning and changes.


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garczar said:
I think Pat's original Accu-Stats TPI gave more than enough info.
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But TPA judges a safety before knowing the result of the next player. I find that too subjective. Let it be factual. Also the accu stats website gives a x2 error on easy shots if missed. What is an easy shot? That is also cery subjective. I think what Pat developed is great! BUT it needs more depth.


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garczar said:
No offense but i don't know any player that's interested in this level of micro-minutia. Just one guy's $.02 worth, nothing more.
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Baseball and other sports dealt with same feedback but now there are companies made because of data collecting. BIG SPORTS. There is an audience, but ya isnt everyone.


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7stud said:
Just because your friends wouldn't use the stats doesn't mean they aren't useful to someone. If a player is too dumb to know how to use them, then a coach might have the wherewithal to read the stats and plan practice sessions based on what the stats tell him. I can guarantee you that the smart pros or their coaches want as much statistical info as they can get. The days when you grew up playing pool are long gone. Now sports are a science.

Most pro sports today have an analytics division or the players employ an analytics firm to get them all kinds of statistics on their play. They pay good money for those numbers.
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100%
Youtube video explaining how analysis revolutionized the NBA.


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garczar said:
How many of the top players of today analyze/use stats to anywhere near this level of detail? I'm betting very few if they do it at all. The AS TPI system is still more than valid. It gives one all you need to know as a player. You really think pool fans are going to want this shot-by-shot breakdown of every match they watch?
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Yes. Do people want this data on espn for nba games? mlb? or others? Yes.


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wow, outstanding work! this is really helpful for the SPORT of billiards. stats are extremely useful for:
  • athletes to see their weakness's to work on
  • data that sports commentators can provide to the audience
  • and sports betting
please continue and update. nden.
 
n_den said:
wow, outstanding work! this is really helpful for the SPORT of billiards. stats are extremely useful for:
  • athletes to see their weakness's to work on
  • data that sports commentators can provide to the audience
  • and sports betting
please continue and update. nden.
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Thanks Those are all reasons why i did


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The data I'd enjoy seeing is the increase in mainstream viewing over the past two years.
With home table and equipment sales increase since the pandemic came upon us all, the homeowners/ball bangers are at the core of a successful improvement /viewership of the game and players paydays.
 
eastcoast_chris said:
Come up with a single page/screen dashboard of the most interesting/revealing stats. Some numbers, some pie charts, etc.

Something that is simple enough that it could be brought up for 10 seconds and the viewer and commentators could quickly digest it.
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rangelsammon said:
That is my goal.
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That's good. But I didn't get that impression from your Post #1, hence my Post #2.

rangelsammon said:
But TPA judges a safety before knowing the result of the next player. ...
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Not quite. A safety error is assessed if the incoming player pockets a ball (kicks excepted) or misses an "easy" shot. I do wonder whether Pat has changed anything in recent times because of the increased use of, and proficiency with, jump shots.
 
AtLarge said:
A safety error is assessed if the incoming player pockets a ball (kicks excepted) or misses an "easy" shot. I do wonder whether Pat has changed anything in recent times because of the increased use of, and proficiency with, jump shots.
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oh interesting. I would love to have a panel on grading shots so there is uniformity across collecting. ive tried to connect with Pat. No success.


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This is probably a bad time to try to speak with Pat in any detail. He is busy running the International Open.
 
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