Low deflection stroke

Patrick Johnson said:
If you're trying to get right spin, that's 1/4 tip too little right.

If you're trying to hit center ball but hit on the left, that's 1/4 tip too little right - again.

pj
chgo
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change it to half tip if it suits u but I imagine world class guys don't miss by half a tip almost ever...vertically sure, but not to sides imo. But maybe the point the old school guys are getting at is exactly what you are saying...hitting little bit on the side of center will protect you from straying way over to the 'wrong english' but still play pretty much str8 ball. Basically adding margin for error.
 
MajorMiscue said:
Backhand english is simply applying english with a straight, non-parallel stroke, no swoop required.
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I use BHE - always have. As a tweeny teeny, friends would tell me to use english so knowing nothing about deflection or even proper aiming, I simply pointed at the english location and shot.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
This is also CJ's reasoning for his TOI system - problem is it's wrong. Hitting the CB left or right of your target point has the same negative effect no matter where you're trying to hit it - too little right spin is the same difference as a little left rather than none.

pj
chgo
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I think It's a perception thing. He gets onto the cue ball biased with inside. It helps to locate the shot besides having minimal effect on the cue ball line.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
The angle change off the rail is the same either way.

pj
chgo
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yes if going str8 into the rail. but at an angle the running english and reverse english have pretty different effects cuz not just bit of angle but the reverse def seems to kill more speed than the running english adds. maybe this is perception issue but seems that way to me for sure.
 
MajorMiscue said:
Backhand english is simply applying english with a straight, non-parallel stroke, no swoop required.
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When people use the word "parallel" in pool aiming, it's often not clear what is supposed to be parallel or non-parallel to what. How do you use the word?

I think the terminology around BHE is not universal. I prefer the terms "aim-and-pivot" and "aim-and-swoop" to make clear what's going on. (The aiming is done with no side spin for both versions.)
 
That sounds like a joke saying, there is no way to get rid of deflection without technology in the shaft. With a stroke you can reduce the effects of deflection, but the cueball will still go off the line of aim the same amount no matter how you strike the ball at that speed and spin amount. I guess the old way of using backhand english to use cueball curve to bring the aiming point back to true when using spin would be a "low deflection stroke".
 
Texas Carom Club said:
Yes i like the short stroke, just seems like less movement less can go wrong
i see a strong 600 plus doing it often. and when i remember to implement it i can make much harder shots, like a long break shot on a 14.1 rack with confidence

the trick for me is REMEMBERING to do a short stroke lol.
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Practice with an open bridg even if the shot feels right for a closed bridge. Get the feel and touch of short and mid stroking and when to use each one, not short ot mid punching.
No punch, release the cue through the ball smoothly and let the follow through extend to completion.
It's ok to have long bridge, just draw the cue back short to deliver what is needed.
That's where players get confused, they associate short stroke with a punch stroke and they are not the same.
They jab at it and kill it, meanwhile you can short stroke the cue ball around the table like butter.

I believe It's the best way to control the mass of the cue and cue ball. Alex, Dennis, Lee Van , etc. seem to agree.
In my eyes the repeatable long stroke instructions that haven't changed in years are a disaster for todays pool players. It's been a new dawn, it's been a new day for sometime now.

Our best player for years has lost on the big stage because his short stroke technique is weak, his long stroke
is amazingly consistent and accurate., somewhat freakish.
At his biggest moments he lost control of the mass due to a long stroke and landed on the 50 yd. line more than
once and it cost him big time.. Slowing the cue ball down with a long bridge delivery is a recipe for deceleration.
Rag cloth tables were on the ship that Moses sailed.

I appreciate your passion for Carom.
SS.
 
Could someone describe short stroke, mid stroke, and long stroke by using both the distance the cue travels to contact, and then the distance between the cue ball and bridge.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think the terminology around BHE is not universal. I prefer the terms "aim-and-pivot" and "aim-and-swoop" to make clear what's going on. (The aiming is done with no side spin for both versions.)
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Especially since the outcome is different for one vs the other - if you aim-and-pivot vs. aim-and-swoop with the same bridge length and hit the same tip/ball contact point, the tip is moving in different directions when it hits the CB, producing different CB paths.

pj
chgo
 
VarmintKong said:
Sup y’all?

I was watching the junior final at the International Open the other night while I was going to sleep. In between long blinks, I heard Jeremy Jones say:

“You always hear people talk about low deflection shafts, but you never hear people talk about a low deflection stroke.”

It’s really been nagging at me for the last couple days. I’ve been trying to boil it down to a statement that I can relate to. Something like, “a strong player uses just enough spin and speed to get position.” I don’t think I’m seeing the big picture though.

So what factors contribute to a low deflection stroke?

Here’s where I’m at. Feel free to rip me apart; I don’t know spit:

-when using side spin try to minimize squirt. A softer stroke can get you where you need to go without throwing you offline as much. The harder the stroke the more compensation is needed from the intended contact point.
-given a choice roll over stun where cut induced throw needs minimized
-tip placement and quality stroke over trying to cram a ball in to a tight pocket. i.e. drag on a ball tight to the long rail at distance

I feel like all of this just boils down to “just cinch the shot and live to see the next ball,” which I’m sure is not what was intended.

I just don’t know what I don’t know. I’d like to know. Throw me a bone brothas and sistas.
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As mentioned two or three times already, use backhand English for the firm to fast shots. But backhand English doesn't work properly if you have to hit it softly. In that case use forward hand English. Simply slide your Bridge hand to the right or the left before you make the shot... not the backhand. A little trick I learned from Dr Dave.
 
VarmintKong said:
I was watching the junior final at the International Open the other night while I was going to sleep. In between long blinks, I heard Jeremy Jones say:

“You always hear people talk about low deflection shafts, but you never hear people talk about a low deflection stroke.”

It’s really been nagging at me for the last couple days. I’ve been trying to boil it down to a statement that I can relate to. Something like, “a strong player uses just enough spin and speed to get position.” I don’t think I’m seeing the big picture though.

So what factors contribute to a low deflection stroke?
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Simple:: Use as little speed an spin as will make the shot and will make position.
 
Not to railroad but a Pro told me I need to learn how to Drive Through an OB with a Thin Hit.
May or may not have figured it out but a strange concept for me.
 
3kushn said:
Not to railroad but a Pro told me I need to learn how to Drive Through an OB with a Thin Hit.
May or may not have figured it out but a strange concept for me.
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That doesn't seem to mean anything phrased like that. Did you ever figure out what he meant?

A large problem with understanding what someone says is that the words make perfect sense to the speaker.
 
Bob Jewett said:
That doesn't seem to mean anything phrased like that. Did you ever figure out what he meant?

A large problem with understanding what someone says is that the words make perfect sense to the speaker.
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I haven't asked for further explanation, but have experimented trying to figure out WTF he's saying. He lives 1000 miles from me.

I think its somewhat of a mind thing (to calm your nerves) but to me its a thin(er) hit with the same attitude of a full hit. Nice strong follow through. To get past the OB ASAP. 3C thinkin here.
 
MattPoland said:
I just assume every now and then JJ might be thinking something very meaningful and use the less technically apt term when saying it.

He could have said a “low deflection stroke” but been thinking about a stroke that minimizes “cut induced throw” but said “low deflection”. Or something like that.
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I understand what JJ is talking about maybe 25% of the time. Once he said something about league players "learning how to win before they learn how to play." The only thing I can think that means is learning strategies that improve your chances against lower level players that are slightly more skilled than you but aren't nearly as effective against highly skilled players.
 
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