If funding for it ever became available, no sport would benefit more (on television) from advanced graphical models than nine ball

Cuedup said:
Watching sports is popular because it offers fans riveting moments of excitement that gets their heart rates up, sitting on the edge of their seats and jumping for joy when their team scores. The kick off return. The slide into home plate. Coming down the stretch side by side to the finish line. The contest are played in venues among cheering fans and broadcast across the world to congregations of other cheering fans.

No amount of camera work is going to bring that to pool.
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Snooker tournaments have packed audiences and large purses. It is possible to develop a large interest in cue sports
 
muskyed said:
I'm going to put forward something to at least hopefully think about before saying it can't be done, but probably be blasphemy to some seasoned pool fans, and that is to consider more televised 8 ball tournaments for viewing. Everyone says we need to do this 9&10 ball game this way, change it that way, and change this and change that to 9&10 ball to create more interest in pool viewership and interest to grow the sport and get a bigger viewership. Well one way to do that is to put out a sport where more can relate to, and that is 8 ball. With 9 ball and 10 ball the average public has zero knowledge about it, and even if it were introduced to them as a spot on tv sports, or they stumbled on it in YouTube, they may watch for a few minutes, but it would be so foreign to them they would quit watching, as the only thing they know about pool is that they may have played it someone else's house party, played at a bar for something to do, or possibly played at a pool establishment for a night out, and for sure the game they played is 8 ball. Heck, I think if you were to ask, a high percentage of pool players have never played 9 or 10 ball.
Baseball, football, golf, tennis, darts, and corn hole, all have a great following on TV with the cash benefits that it brings. What do all those sports have in common, they are all sports that the average person knows and understands and are played like they know.
I realize that 9&10 ball are the sports that pros play now, but are they really the right games to play to increase not only viewership and prize money, but also increased interest in pool as a whole?
Let's face it, every month or two, there is a post that deals with what needs to be done to better promote pool and get it televised with the benefits that come along with that. All the comments are basically we need bigger bankrollers/ not going to happen without bigger viewership, TV coverage/ not going to happen without more interest, bigger sustained prize money, not going to happen in a meaningful way with just You tube and pay per view. The only way to get a more sustained and bigger paycheck for touring pros is for an increased viewership and interest in pool, and that is with the game that not only pool players know, but also those with just a casual interest in pool know, and those casual viewers have zero knowledge in 9 & 10 ball.
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Matchroom/Frazier's total fixation on 9 ball has always confused me for this reason. It is also a very boring game to watch at the highest level; the second a player has an open shot they will run out 90+% of the time. 8 ball typically has a lot more clusters/problem areas that are interesting to watch
 
diderot said:
Snooker tournaments have packed audiences and large purses. It is possible to develop a large interest in cue sports
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Snooker in Europe is not pool in America just as Chinese 8 ball in China isn't pool in America.

It would be nice to see American audiences flock to viewing American pool but it will take something revolutionary ,other than tighter pockets and banning the jump cues, to make it happen.
 
Cuedup said:
Snooker in Europe is not pool in America just as Chinese 8 ball in China isn't pool in America.

It would be nice to see American audiences flock to viewing American pool but it will take something revolutionary ,other than tighter pockets and banning the jump cues, to make it happen.
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Two things about Americans and sports I have noticed as an American sports fan: 1. they love spectacle 2. they love to feel that they are smarter than the average fan

The spectacle part is trickier because, as above, 9 ball just isn't very exciting

But, in a world of data surpluses, nothing really hooks people into basketball and baseball more than going on twitter and arguing about stats/matchups/etc. There's no easy entry point into doing that with pool at the moment. Having some visualization of what the difficulties in pool are and which players are the best at solving them is where I'd start.
 
diderot said:
Matchroom/Frazier's total fixation on 9 ball has always confused me for this reason. It is also a very boring game to watch at the highest level; the second a player has an open shot they will run out 90+% of the time. 8 ball typically has a lot more clusters/problem areas that are interesting to watch
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Not for top pros. I've seen a lot of top players playing 8ball and its too easy for them. Most of them hate playing it. Don't hold your breath waiting for 8b to be a popular pro-level game. Only reason they played the IPT was the lure of the $$ and even that was a scam.
 
garczar said:
Not for top pros. I've seen a lot of top players playing 8ball and its too easy for them. Most of them hate playing it. Don't hold your breath waiting for 8b to be a popular pro-level game. Only reason they played the IPT was the lure of the $$ and even that was a scam.
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Definitely. I just mean for major tournaments to feature some 8 would be good for interest.

Call pocket 10 ball seems to be the game for competitive interest, while I will keep hoping straight pool makes a comeback (lol)
 
I agree with the sentiment of the OP

I would personally like to say a modelling of ongoing rack and shot difficulty/probability
 
Snooker on TV often includes cue-path graphics overlays (often on escapes from safes), and cue-ball hit graphics ... not sure when this started but it is not new.

Dave
 
muskyed said:
I'm going to put forward something to at least hopefully think about before saying it can't be done, but probably be blasphemy to some seasoned pool fans, and that is to consider more televised 8 ball tournaments for viewing. Everyone says we need to do this 9&10 ball game this way, change it that way, and change this and change that to 9&10 ball to create more interest in pool viewership and interest to grow the sport and get a bigger viewership. Well one way to do that is to put out a sport where more can relate to, and that is 8 ball. With 9 ball and 10 ball the average public has zero knowledge about it, and even if it were introduced to them as a spot on tv sports, or they stumbled on it in YouTube, they may watch for a few minutes, but it would be so foreign to them they would quit watching, as the only thing they know about pool is that they may have played it someone else's house party, played at a bar for something to do, or possibly played at a pool establishment for a night out, and for sure the game they played is 8 ball. Heck, I think if you were to ask, a high percentage of pool players have never played 9 or 10 ball.
Baseball, football, golf, tennis, darts, and corn hole, all have a great following on TV with the cash benefits that it brings. What do all those sports have in common, they are all sports that the average person knows and understands and are played like they know.
I realize that 9&10 ball are the sports that pros play now, but are they really the right games to play to increase not only viewership and prize money, but also increased interest in pool as a whole?
Let's face it, every month or two, there is a post that deals with what needs to be done to better promote pool and get it televised with the benefits that come along with that. All the comments are basically we need bigger bankrollers/ not going to happen without bigger viewership, TV coverage/ not going to happen without more interest, bigger sustained prize money, not going to happen in a meaningful way with just You tube and pay per view. The only way to get a more sustained and bigger paycheck for touring pros is for an increased viewership and interest in pool, and that is with the game that not only pool players know, but also those with just a casual interest in pool know, and those casual viewers have zero knowledge in 9 & 10 ball.
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I made similar arguments several years ago and got poo-pooed for saying so.

The best argument that 9-ball and 10-ball are not correct is that they are constantly changing the break.
{1-ball on spot, 9-ball on spot, CB between the 2nd diamonds, 3 balls above head string,....and on and on} this is the mark that the game itself is in error, and no amount of fiddling will fix them.

Snooker has no problem attracting an audience and games last 15+ minutes each ..... but then again they are Britons....
 
Everybody is worried as to what the pros want. Who gives a rip. The reality is that what they are doing now will never grow pool in a meaningfull way. Use a rack, don't use a rack, change the ball color, change where you break from, and so on, and so on, it hasn't changed a thing, and never will as long as you keep promoting a game that not only does the average viewer not know what it is, but also, the average pool player even has no interest in.
Pay per view and youtube will never get the mass viewership that it takes to appeal to tv viewership. To say that pros won't play 8 ball is nonsense. If it resulted in tv contracts with the viewership and increased prize money that came along with it, they would be lining up to play and smile while doing it.
Everyone can talk about it all you want, but the reality is it hasn't been working for a long time, and is always going to be flawed till you can promote a sport that the viewers can relate to. Yes matchroom has put a professional production out for pool and has been a boost for pool, but as a pay for view format, has a limited viewership.
Darts and Cornhole is big on tv because people can relate to it. Many times I've sat in a bar and a dart or cornhole championship is on their sports channel and customers are watching and engaged in it, 9 or 10 ball pool would only draw interest from some pool players. In fact, I have no interest in 9 and 10 ball other than to watch some good play. I would much rather watch the pros play 8 ball.
 
If viewers will watch a boring sport like golf on tv, it surely isn't the length of the game that is holding pool back.
 
The way to get people to flock to watch American cue sports will not be by tweaking the rules of existing games. Slowly walking around a table methodically hitting balls will not get fans jumping out of their seats and cheering for their team.
 
muskyed said:
If viewers will watch a boring sport like golf on tv, it surely isn't the length of the game that is holding pool back.
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Golf gives good coverage of the game but it's nothing like the coverage of a pool tournament. If golf were filmed like pool it would not be where it is.

An overhead view of the fairway while the commentators talk about how the player is going to hit the shot.
 
In football now, they have graphics to show you where the first down line is, all knowledgeable viewers already know this, but it helps and doesnt detract from the viewing experience.

In 9 ball, for example, they could have a similar graphic of where the CB needs to end up for the next shot, knowledgeable players already know this of course, but casual players dont. It would not detract from the experience, and would better show the CB skills of the players to the casual fans.....

I say Yes.
 
muskyed said:
If viewers will watch a boring sport like golf on tv, it surely isn't the length of the game that is holding pool back.
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Great example. People I know really like the graphic overlays showing windspeed and the arc tracking the course of the ball and its speed/direction. Makes the difficulty of each shot and the player's success very easy to understand.
 
michael4 said:
In football now, they have graphics to show you where the first down line is, all knowledgeable viewers already know this, but it helps and doesnt detract from the viewing experience.

In 9 ball, for example, they could have a similar graphic of where the CB needs to end up for the next shot, knowledgeable players already know this of course, but casual players dont. It would not detract from the experience, and would better show the CB skills of the players to the casual fans.....

I say Yes.
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A highlighted cue ball target area would be great
 
michael4 said:
In game does not mater, for example, they could have a similar graphic of where the CB needs to end up for the next shot,<snip> It would not detract from the experience, and would better show the CB skills of the players to the casual fans.....
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The graphic should be 3 lines of different colors::
a) the line from the cue to object ball,
b) the line from OB to pocket,
c) the line how the CB is maneuvered from point of contact to resting place.

probably not as bold as the scrimmage line and first down line in football, but easily visible. approximately 3-pixels wide on a 1920×1080 screen.

Then get rid of (or modify the use of) the shot clock so the commentators can inform the audience about the shot prior to the shot taking place. Replace it with a green light so the player knows when he is allowed to shoot.
 
In the ESPN2 days of broadcasting pool, there would be little mini-lessons mixed into the commercial breaks. It would be helpful to have some of these in the can instead of just the blank screen with the sponsors on breaks (you can watermark the sponsors on the videos). Plenty of non-pool players knew who the top handful of 9-ball players were during those days, hence Jeanette Lee getting her own "30 for 30".

For the general public there is no real reason broadcasts/streams have to be live, so they can add in graphics post-filming (on a budget) and give it a little more of a professional look than the 1990's Madden telestrator.

That being said, I don't trust pool. "In chaos there is profit".... and during the chaos of Covid-19 there was no effort in the pool community to profit. Every live sport was shut down, people were stuck in their homes (watching more TV), and TV stations were scrambling to put something on the air....and the pool community sat on god knows how many hours of (relatively unseen) pool content, complete with commentary, apparently without trying to pitch any of it (For instance, sell ESPN the rights to the 2017, 2018, and 2019 Mosconi Cup footage for dirt cheap - it wouldn't beat out their "normal" content, but in August of 2020 there were no sports to report on).
 
Cuedup said:
Golf gives good coverage of the game but it's nothing like the coverage of a pool tournament. If golf were filmed like pool it would not be where it is.

An overhead view of the fairway while the commentators talk about how the player is going to hit the shot.
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We're less than a month out from the Master's. If you watch you'll see more than four days of excellent tv production. There will be canned human interest packages about players, the golf course, golf history. They'll have interviews with retired players, beautiful B-roll, detailed course commentary, weather visualizations, mic-ed up players, all sorts. And the game is set up to culminate in a cathartic walk down 18 on Sunday for the green jacket.

The hard part is getting players to participate. Imagine if the golfers just showed up, put their spikes on, played the weekend, then chucked their clubs back in the car and shouted "mail me the check" as the peeled out?
 
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