More Tip Position Discussion

nataddrho

nataddrho

www.digicue.net
Silver Member
I have been busy trying to create something that provides us with exact tip position, and I've had a lot of success. So now, lets try to use it to see if it is actually beneficial, specifically when paired with a video review.

youtube.com

✂️ Hitting Thick

12 seconds · Clipped by Nathan Rhoades · Original video "DigiBall Studio Demo, Tkinter and OpenCV 2023 10 24 09 28 38" by Nathan Rhoades
youtube.com youtube.com

In this shot, I need to cut the 4-ball down the rail. The angle is kind of thick, so unless I draw with more power to get below the eight ball (risky), I will have to live with another thick angle shot on the five to get back to the other end of the table for the six. I could also follow and come back towards the middle of the table being closer to the five.

However, the table I am playing on is relatively difficult. I am not used to it and it has small pockets. So I am feeling uncomfortable.

I end up hitting the four ball with draw with a touch of inside RIGHT, not outside LEFT like I would have expected to do. The four is thrown into the rail and I was lucky to have even pocketed it. You can also see that I steered my cue towards the right, like I was magically trying to get the cue ball off of the rail.

I wonder what went through my head, but hitting the balls thick is a common problem I have when I am uncomfortable. Maybe I combined the ideas of inside follow and outside draw?

So... a conclusion I can draw is that, it seems like my actual aiming is OK, but my tip position drifted. When I notice myself hitting the ball too thick, I should first take more time committing to a solution, and then notice where my tip is landing on the CB. Maybe take a little more time thinking and executing my stroke along the line I set on.

...

I am hoping that when this product is available, self analysis like this can help you fix subtle parts of your game, and free you from not knowing what to blame. (rhyme not intended).

Note: I wouldn't have been able to get this much detail using a traditional training ball, aligning it by hand, and then going to look for the chalk mark on the ball while hoping it hadn't rubbed off.

Nate
 
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You undercut the shot. The OB hit the rail before it landed in the pocket. If you hit the ball more true and landed in the center of pocket. The CB could of came out a little bit more. You are still going to have to accept with what you are dealt with on the 5.

The real issue is poor shot secection on getting on the 4, maybe getting a better angle or getting a shoot on the other side of the 4 could avoid dfficult secenarios like this.
 
Zerksies said:
You undercut the shot. The OB hit the rail before it landed in the pocket. If you hit the ball more true and landed in the center of pocket. The CB could of came out a little bit more. You are still going to have to accept with what you are dealt with on the 5.

The real issue is poor shot secection on getting on the 4, maybe getting a better angle or getting a shoot on the other side of the 4 could avoid dfficult secenarios like this.
Click to expand...
Well captain obvious he was aware of that. His point was by learning that he did not strike the cue ball as he intended to he is able to ascertain why.

Nate I think this is a great concept!
 
alphadog said:
Well captain obvious he was aware of that. His point was by learning that he did not strike the cue ball as he intended to he is able to ascertain why.

Nate I think this is a great concept!
Click to expand...
Easy answer bad stroke mechanics. He can't deliver a consistant shot. I have plenty of drills to get his shot more consistent. The downside is he has to hit the drill a few thosand times.
 
Zerksies said:
Easy answer bad stroke mechanics. He can't deliver a consistant shot. I have plenty of drills to get his shot more consistent. The downside is he has to hit the drill a few thosand times.
Click to expand...
I don’t think you get the point of the thread? You may be reacting without reading.
 
I likewise will shank a shot occasionally and wind up putting opposite English on the ball. Like with your digicue, it would be interesting to have data showing if I favor one side over the other. My typical shank/miss is to bring my cue path too close to by body and apply left.
 
nataddrho said:
I have been busy trying to create something that provides us with exact tip position, and I've had a lot of success. So now, lets try to use it to see if it is actually beneficial, specifically when paired with a video review.

youtube.com

✂️ Hitting Thick

12 seconds · Clipped by Nathan Rhoades · Original video "DigiBall Studio Demo, Tkinter and OpenCV 2023 10 24 09 28 38" by Nathan Rhoades
youtube.com youtube.com

In this shot, I need to cut the 4-ball down the rail. The angle is kind of thick, so unless I draw with more power to get below the eight ball (risky), I will have to live with another thick angle shot on the five to get back to the other end of the table for the six. I could also follow and come back towards the middle of the table being closer to the five.

However, the table I am playing on is relatively difficult. I am not used to it and it has small pockets. So I am feeling uncomfortable.

I end up hitting the four ball with draw with a touch of inside RIGHT, not outside LEFT like I would have expected to do. The four is thrown into the rail and I was lucky to have even pocketed it. You can also see that I steered my cue towards the right, like I was magically trying to get the cue ball off of the rail.

I wonder what went through my head, but hitting the balls thick is a common problem I have when I am uncomfortable. Maybe I combined the ideas of inside follow and outside draw?

So... a conclusion I can draw is that, it seems like my actual aiming is OK, but my tip position drifted. When I notice myself hitting the ball too thick, I should first take more time committing to a solution, and then notice where my tip is landing on the CB. Maybe take a little more time thinking and executing my stroke along the line I set on.

...

I am hoping that when this product is available, self analysis like this can help you fix subtle parts of your game, and free you from not knowing what to blame. (rhyme not intended).

Note: I wouldn't have been able to get this much detail using a traditional training ball, aligning it by hand, and then going to look for the chalk mark on the ball while hoping it hadn't rubbed off.

Nate
Click to expand...
nataddrho said:
You said 'So... a conclusion I can draw is that, it seems like my actual aiming is OK, but my tip position drifted.'. When I haven't played for awhile, and my shots aren't coming off as they should, I know I'm not striking the cue ball properly and I correct it. No offense, but it's not rocket science. Practice your way out of it. Oh, by the way..... Willie Mosconi said to never hit the cue ball more than a cue tip width from center. Really good advice.
Click to expand...
 
Zerksies and RT Ford,

I am not asking for solutions to improve my game from this single example.

This is an exercise to imagine if feedback of precise tip position, as displayed in the video, can be useful to you if you were the one in the video. A product feature review.

You can say that you don’t need it, but again, that doesn’t answer the question.

Is it useful or helpful? Yes or no? And why?

“Practice your way out of it” is a good example of the advice we want to try to get away from.
 
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nataddrho said:
Zerksies and RT Ford,

I am not asking for solutions to improve my game from this single example.

This is an exercise to imagine if feedback of precise tip position, as displayed in the video, can be useful to you if you were the one in the video. A product feature review.

You can say that you don’t need it, but again, that doesn’t answer the question.

Is it useful or helpful? Yes or no? And why?

“Practice your way out of it” is a good example of the advice we want to try to get away from.
Click to expand...
Nate you are inventing a training tool to present a better way to "practice your way out of it". You are aware of this?
 
sounds like someone needs to figure out how to hit the cue ball correctly, as opposed to analizing what happens when you don't.
 
nataddrho said:
How can you possibly learn to hit a cue ball correctly if you don’t analyze what happens when you don’t? That makes no sense.
Click to expand...

How do you orient it for calibration? Does it profile a simple short stroke center properly?
 
Renegade_56 said:
It don't matter if you can't hit it where you want to, that is my point
Click to expand...
Do you think that knowing where you are actually hitting it and comparing it to where you want to will help you develop the skill to be more accurate? Would a rifleman not bother looking at his target paper if he can’t hit a bullseye every time?
 
justnum said:
How do you orient it for calibration? Does it profile a simple short stroke center properly?
Click to expand...
It uses gravity as an orientation vector so you do not need to touch or align it for calibration.

It does not profile your stroke at all. The ball is in contact with your cue for less than 2ms. It does profile spin magnitude evolution over time.
 
nataddrho said:
It uses gravity as an orientation vector so you do not need to touch or align it for calibration.

It does not profile your stroke at all. The ball is in contact with your cue for less than 2ms. It does profile spin magnitude evolution over time.
Click to expand...

How many sensors would you need you calculate a cue vector oriented along table surface or triangulated along three points?
 
alphadog said:
Nate you are inventing a training tool to present a better way to "practice your way out of it". You are aware of this?
Click to expand...
There is a certain crabs in a bucket mentality that I am referencing, where if one isn’t suffering in the same way then they are condemned for it. HAMB or Die. It is effective in learning pool completely. But boy is it inefficient.

Practicing with purpose is great. Practicing with out purpose or a goal is frustrating.
 
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justnum said:
How many sensors would you need you calculate a cue vector oriented along table surface or triangulated along three points?
Click to expand...
You would need to measure absolute rotational and translational position in reference to the table, so a camera. Dynamic information can be obtained from an IMU.
 
nataddrho said:
There is a certain crabs in a bucket mentality that I am referencing, where if one isn’t suffering in the same way then they are condemned for it. HAMB or Die. It is effective in learning pool completely. But boy is it inefficient.

Practicing with purpose is great. Practicing with out purpose or a goal is frustrating.
Click to expand...
I believe I fully understand your posts.😉
I have already stated I think this can be a great aid.
 
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