Careful. Somebody's gonna say that's an old wives tale.
Deflection as relating to tip size
- Thread starter trfitters
- Start date
What I was responding to was the old wives' tale lolCareful. Somebody's gonna say that's an old wives tale.
Yep, overcompensation for squirt is not a good thing, since any swerve will compound the error.
Undercompensation for squirt at least has a chance of hitting the intended target, if swerve brings the CB back on line.
i get more spin with a friends Z Pred.(11.75). about a diamond's worth more consistently. i see what you're sayin, pj told me same things. i can't explain it but its real.
A diamond's worth across the short or long dimension of the table?
Either way, I'd have to see that in person to believe it, with a practice CB aligned precisely so I could see where your tip makes contact on each shot. I certainly can't reproduce any difference with my old z2 shafts, and nothing in the known physics realm of english explains that outcome.
Were your tips prepped the same, chalked the same, and shaped the same? Were you careful to hit from the exact same spot, and hit the first rail at the exact same spot? Were you monitoring the speed of each shot, making sure the CB traveled the same distance for each test shot? Were you miscuing with each shaft occasionally, so you knew you were pushing hitting as far out as possible? You weren't elevating the butt of the thinner shafted cue more, were you, as that would apply a little masse to the shot?
If I could reproduce that effect, I would immediately sell off my new CF shafts and go back to the z2, and probably order a Revo in 11.8 - because having that much more sidespin available when needed is a huge competitive advantage.
I've posted these "spin test" instructions a few times before - keep your cue as level as possible and hit on the cue ball's equator.
1. Use a striped ball as your "CB" with the stripe vertical and facing you.
2. Hit the ball on the edge of the stripe (maximum side spin), aiming it straight across the table (diamond to diamond) - put a target, like a piece of chalk, on the far rail to easily see if you're hitting straight across.
3. Hit it just hard enough to rebound to the near rail. Mark the spot it hits on the near rail.
4. Check the chalk mark after each shot to be sure you hit right on the edge of the stripe.
5. Don't count any shot if (1) you didn't hit the far rail target, (2) the chalk mark isn't exactly on the edge of the stripe, or (3) the speed is different.
pj
chgo
I can't stand little shafts. Everything i own is 12.75-12.9. Get all the juice i need to play. The Z is the only Pred. product i've ever owned. Tried it for about 3-4 days, hated it, traded it off.
There's a very, VERY high probablility that when you use your friends Predator z shaft, you're actually striking the cue ball further out from center than you are with your fatter shafts, even though you think you're not. That's simply caused by the visual differences between your fatter shafts and the thin z shaft, and where the contact point is in relation to where the entire tip is. It's basically an optical illusion. And that would mean also that you rarely max out your potential sidespin with your fatter shafts.
Doing PJs test would likely prove that if you were interested, but if you're happy with your current shafts - of course nobody will fault you for not going to that trouble.
lol - we're definitely apples and oranges. Showing yet again that the best cue is the one that suits you.
pj
chgo
More sidespin i don't need.
I could play okay with cheap mass market cues. But boy it gets weird when they all have gooey off center tips, are 3-6” short, no bumper, sharded going into the ferrule, etc. Some of them really changed my stance and grip to the point I had to shoot with a different vision center. They were pretty gross.
Smallest I own is a 12.5 and it stays in the case. 12.9 and 13mm are all I shoot with. My hands are big and like the feel and feedback from a bigger shaft - in my case. That's what I learned to shoot with and trying smaller shafts didn't give any competitive advantage I noticed, so... If it ain't broke...
I gotta agree. I get in enuf trouble w the spin I get now!!
It feels like the discussion of cueball deflection is new to you. It’s only been a in depth topic on these boards for 25 years. Pretty sure everyone understood the challenges with pocketing a ball using English back then, and more and more people started to understand how important cueball deflection (squirt) was to understand. I think the first time I heard about squirt and its challenges was in 1983 or so.
Welcome to Internet forums.
i figured out about squirt in the 1960's. just from seeing where the cueball went. i never equated it to weight of the tip though.
i just learned to compensate for where to aim depending on what it would do in the different circumstances. as all good players would do.
coupled with back hand english.
i just learned to compensate for where to aim depending on what it would do in the different circumstances. as all good players would do.
coupled with back hand english.
Going a little further back, Kentfield in his book "The Game of Billiards" (1839) has an illustration of backhand english including squirt and swerve. And in a French book from around 1890, the author describes backhand english in detail -- aim center ball and then pivot around the bridge hand for side spin. This was sort of forgotten by billiard writers for a hundred years or so.
irspow
Member
I am a slow learner, but isn’t back hand english mainly for longer and harder shots while front hand english is for shorter and softer strokes?
If you are using pivoting for squirt compensation, the pivot point -- or the balance between front/back -- changes with lots of variables, including speed. Softer shots, that allow more swerve to cancel the squirt, generally don't work well with backhand english.