I wanted a pockets only table, but a table with ball return is all that was available. Turns out I really like the ball return on a coinless Diamond table. So much quicker.
Best table...
- Thread starter Georgiacue
- Start date
Diamond makes two drop pocket tables , the Pro and Paragon.
I'm not sure why they won't offer the drop pockets used at some of the tournaments in Pro-Am as a option. But the big sponge trick seems to work well and is reversible when ever you want.
snookered_again
Well-known member
poplar is a cheap lightweight wood. The rails need to be heavy to return bounce properly. the thick plastic coating just ads to the cheap ugly look in my opinion . How much was the new Diamond after all is said and done including setup? That GC
do you know what poplar is? it is a hardwood in name, because the tree looses it's leaves. Poplar is a soft lightweight inexpensive wood often used as a filler in cheap furniture. Cottonwood is hardwood too, by the same means, it also loses it's leaves. all plastics are polymers.. The company spends a lot on this sort of advertising, I'm seeing this stuff all over.. butcher block hardwood lol..
how much was the new Diamond? The GC posted is a classic! pick up a nice GC for under 3 G and you have a table for life that your kids will then sell for even more because it will appreciate in value.. no diamond table appreciates in value, they aren't collectable or particularly nice.. Aside from Brunswick and diamond there are many beautiful options..
the only advantage I see in the diamond is that the little 7 foot can be moved in one piece which is good for temporary installations like tournaments. Its also understandable that when a person is looking for for a new pool hall setup, they want conformity, instead of a bunch of classic tables with dissimilarities.. If you want a clone then buying new junk is an option..
I dont think most good players really want to play on 7 foot kids tables, they do that because that's how the tournaments are set up by the deep pocket organizations. Some pool halls are set up so they can all practice on the same style of kid sized tables.. There is definitely a lot of marketing involved.
Tournament play is usually not set up in such a way that the members have the choice of playing in their tournament or league on beautiful Brunswick gold crown tables.
A Diamond table is certainly not what I'd suggest to a good friend spend his hard earned money on.. There are lots of nicer looking and better options...
If you are buying a bunch and can get a good discount and want ten tables exactly the same maybe they are a contender? They may drop the price a lot for the representation, market share.. Certainly still not the only choice.. The diamond is very well marketed, they spend a lot on marketing , look at all the videos and stuff.. the internet is loaded with it. Mcdonalds does that too, but they don't make great hamburgers.. why do people eat there? Marketing !
Some have their pool rooms and homes decorated in plastic looking furniture.. but personally , when I compare that to the old english pub look and an old table and furniture that is complimentary , it sets up a comfortable and beautiful surrounding. I'd prefer that to another clone any day.
its obvious you hate them and thats fine. they are built like tanks and will last eons. i've never seen ANY D'mond rail warp or come apart so your complaint is a non issue. at least you finally figured out there's no particle board in them. UD: i msg'd D'mond and i was wrong on the wood. They use ash and oak for the base material of the rails not poplar. Poplar is used as a facing wood to make stapling easier.poplar is a cheap lightweight wood. The rails need to be heavy to return bounce properly. the thick plastic coating just ads to the cheap ugly look in my opinion . How much was the new Diamond after all is said and done including setup? That GC
do you know what poplar is? it is a hardwood in name, because the tree looses it's leaves. Poplar is a soft lightweight inexpensive wood often used as a filler in cheap furniture. Cottonwood is hardwood too, by the same means, it also loses it's leaves. all plastics are polymers.. The company spends a lot on this sort of advertising, I'm seeing this stuff all over.. butcher block hardwood lol..
The GC posted is a classic! pick up a nice GC for under 3 G and you have a table for life that your kids will then sell for even more because it will appreciate in value.. no diamond table appreciates in value, they aren't collectable or particularly nice.. Aside from Brunswick and diamond there are many beautiful options..
the only advantage I see in the diamond is that the little 7 foot can be moved in one piece which is good for temporary installations like tournaments. Its also understandable that when a person is looking for for a new pool hall setup, they want conformity, instead of a bunch of classic tables with dissimilarities.. If you want a clone then buying new junk is an option..
I dont think most good players really want to play on 7 foot kids tables, they do that because that's how the tournaments are set up by the deep pocket organizations. Some pool halls are set up so they can all practice on the same style of kid sized tables.. There is definitely a lot of marketing involved.
Tournament play is usually not set up in such a way that the members have the choice of playing in their tournament or league on beautiful Brunswick gold crown tables.
A Diamond table is certainly not what I'd suggest to a good friend spend his hard earned money on.. There are lots of nicer looking and better options...
If you are buying a bunch and can get a good discount and want ten tables exactly the same maybe they are a contender? They may drop the price a lot for the representation, market share.. Certainly still not the only choice.. The diamond is very well marketed, they spend a lot on marketing , look at all the videos and stuff.. the internet is loaded with it. Mcdonalds does that too, but they don't make great hamburgers.. why do people eat there? Marketing !
Some have their pool rooms and homes decorated in plastic looking furniture.. but personally , when I compare that to the old english pub look and an old table and furniture that is complimentary , it sets up a comfortable and beautiful surrounding. I'd prefer that to another clone any day.
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I have owned a Red Label 9 foot Diamond Professional table since March, 1995. I spoke to the owner of Diamond Billiards and purchased the table after it had been set up for a few days at the Billiard Expo in King of Prussia, PA for Diamond. It has drop pockets, flush leather and green Simonis 860 cloth. I had it refurbished with new cushions, new cloth and leveled by Dave Christie of D&L Billiards in 2011. I also play in a pool league on Brunswick Gold Crown III tables and much earlier I played at a pool hall/bowling alley that had Brunswick Gold Crown I tables. My pocket sizes are 4.5 inches (corners) and 5 inches (sides). In my opinion the Diamond Professional plays better than the Gold Crowns - the pockets are flush leather instead of raised plastic, there are no metal scorers on the rails and the rails are flat oak, not curved and have actual diamonds for points instead of round circles on the rails. Both tables are very solid but I prefer the slow rebounding cushions and tight pockets on the Diamond table. It has a 3 piece slate system but I hear that the more modern version may be 1 piece slate.
Do some research. The only Poplar in the rail is one layer the cushion attaches to the rest is Oak, or Ash or I believe there are some other options. There is no plastic coating. Where do you get that from? As far as butcher blocked rails , a good butcher block is more stable than a solid piece of wood.poplar is a cheap lightweight wood. The rails need to be heavy to return bounce properly. the thick plastic coating just ads to the cheap ugly look in my opinion . How much was the new Diamond after all is said and done including setup? That GC
do you know what poplar is? it is a hardwood in name, because the tree looses it's leaves. Poplar is a soft lightweight inexpensive wood often used as a filler in cheap furniture. Cottonwood is hardwood too, by the same means, it also loses it's leaves. all plastics are polymers.. The company spends a lot on this sort of advertising, I'm seeing this stuff all over.. butcher block hardwood lol..
The GC posted is a classic! pick up a nice GC for under 3 G and you have a table for life that your kids will then sell for even more because it will appreciate in value.. no diamond table appreciates in value, they aren't collectable or particularly nice.. Aside from Brunswick and diamond there are many beautiful options..
the only advantage I see in the diamond is that the little 7 foot can be moved in one piece which is good for temporary installations like tournaments. Its also understandable that when a person is looking for for a new pool hall setup, they want conformity, instead of a bunch of classic tables with dissimilarities.. If you want a clone then buying new junk is an option..
I dont think most good players really want to play on 7 foot kids tables, they do that because that's how the tournaments are set up by the deep pocket organizations. Some pool halls are set up so they can all practice on the same style of kid sized tables.. There is definitely a lot of marketing involved.
Tournament play is usually not set up in such a way that the members have the choice of playing in their tournament or league on beautiful Brunswick gold crown tables.
A Diamond table is certainly not what I'd suggest to a good friend spend his hard earned money on.. There are lots of nicer looking and better options...
If you are buying a bunch and can get a good discount and want ten tables exactly the same maybe they are a contender? They may drop the price a lot for the representation, market share.. Certainly still not the only choice.. The diamond is very well marketed, they spend a lot on marketing , look at all the videos and stuff.. the internet is loaded with it. Mcdonalds does that too, but they don't make great hamburgers.. why do people eat there? Marketing !
Some have their pool rooms and homes decorated in plastic looking furniture.. but personally , when I compare that to the old english pub look and an old table and furniture that is complimentary , it sets up a comfortable and beautiful surrounding. I'd prefer that to another clone any day.
As far as a GC they cover their rails with formica and veneers so how is that any better ? I find formica ugly and veneer tends to bubble and degrade if not treated right.
By the way your looking at around 4000 for a GC that will need restored and the rails modified to get better sized pockets in Canada. Yes in the states they come up more and are more reasonable.
What other options are there for a true players table not a furniture table? Yes Rasson is a option , Predator not likely as they are a cheap looking table to me and new GC is outrageous price and seem to have QC problems in the fit and finish department. What hardwood is used in a GC rail? From what i can find is they used Poplar.
An older modified GC is really the only other option and aren't easy to come by.
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DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Poplar is also very stable and easy to work with.
Rails don't need to be heavy to 'return bounce properly.' You need stiffness. For instance, carbon fiber is about 1.7 times as stiff as aluminum, but weighs about 2/3 as much.
Pull up your pants, your ignorance is showing.
snookered_again
Well-known member
- The plastic coated rails were shown in a little video clip above. They are bouncing balls off it. I think the main reason why the weight of the rail is so important is because there is no positive tie to the slate , and without either a heavy rail or a attachment into the slate the bounce characteristics ( the purpose of the rail) are diminished.
not so much else I'm in disagreement with. Some opinions.. we all have them. Its good to see people expressing them. A diamond would not be my choice as a home table. If I was setting up a pool hall, then I'd invite offers on pricing as that would be more about a business and marketing decision than how much I like the table myself.
not so much else I'm in disagreement with. Some opinions.. we all have them. Its good to see people expressing them. A diamond would not be my choice as a home table. If I was setting up a pool hall, then I'd invite offers on pricing as that would be more about a business and marketing decision than how much I like the table myself.
snookered_again
Well-known member
Your rudeness is showing
Badpenguin
Well-known member
Again, the rails are not plastic coated. Why do you persist with these attempts to pass off misinformation as fact in this thread?
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Pay attention. That video shows the optional PRC rail which is a Phenolic Resin compound, they are not all like that. I'm thinking the antique tables probably even used poplar rails. 4 rail bolts torqued properly gives a good positive tie to the slate. I would also think too heavy of a rail is going to contribute to sagging of the slate.
Don't waste your time. the guy hates them and even facts won't make him budge. That PRC compound is stronger than ANYTHING B'wick ever used in their rails. Look, i love a good GC4(have access to 10 nice ones) but to say D'mond's aren't built well is ludicrous.
^^^^^^^^^ I have never heard of a self promoted "table mechanic" who is so utterly clueless.poplar is a cheap lightweight wood. The rails need to be heavy to return bounce properly. the thick plastic coating just ads to the cheap ugly look in my opinion . How much was the new Diamond after all is said and done including setup? That GC
do you know what poplar is? it is a hardwood in name, because the tree looses it's leaves. Poplar is a soft lightweight inexpensive wood often used as a filler in cheap furniture. Cottonwood is hardwood too, by the same means, it also loses it's leaves. all plastics are polymers.. The company spends a lot on this sort of advertising, I'm seeing this stuff all over.. butcher block hardwood lol..
The GC posted is a classic! pick up a nice GC for under 3 G and you have a table for life that your kids will then sell for even more because it will appreciate in value.. no diamond table appreciates in value, they aren't collectable or particularly nice.. Aside from Brunswick and diamond there are many beautiful options..
the only advantage I see in the diamond is that the little 7 foot can be moved in one piece which is good for temporary installations like tournaments. Its also understandable that when a person is looking for for a new pool hall setup, they want conformity, instead of a bunch of classic tables with dissimilarities.. If you want a clone then buying new junk is an option..
I dont think most good players really want to play on 7 foot kids tables, they do that because that's how the tournaments are set up by the deep pocket organizations. Some pool halls are set up so they can all practice on the same style of kid sized tables.. There is definitely a lot of marketing involved.
Tournament play is usually not set up in such a way that the members have the choice of playing in their tournament or league on beautiful Brunswick gold crown tables.
A Diamond table is certainly not what I'd suggest to a good friend spend his hard earned money on.. There are lots of nicer looking and better options...
If you are buying a bunch and can get a good discount and want ten tables exactly the same maybe they are a contender? They may drop the price a lot for the representation, market share.. Certainly still not the only choice.. The diamond is very well marketed, they spend a lot on marketing , look at all the videos and stuff.. the internet is loaded with it. Mcdonalds does that too, but they don't make great hamburgers.. why do people eat there? Marketing !
Some have their pool rooms and homes decorated in plastic looking furniture.. but personally , when I compare that to the old english pub look and an old table and furniture that is complimentary , it sets up a comfortable and beautiful surrounding. I'd prefer that to another clone any day.
And the other guy who said his buddy the "table mechanic" that said Diamonds are made of particle board, I believe thats one of those installers who have pics of their work posted here, you know the table that has 2 layers of old cloth under the one new layer that is loose.
SomeDeadGuy
Member
I may be old school, but for the money, a used Gold Crown professionally restored is a rock solid, tournament quality table. If you are a recent returning player, ask for 4 1/2” pockets. If Spend the money you save on a high tech led lighting system.
Diamonds are great but ugly and not enough of them on the resale market to get them used at a reasonable price. I've heard Diamonds rails are cut to length instead of shimmed but shimmed rails on the Brunswicks play fine.
Diamonds are great but ugly and not enough of them on the resale market to get them used at a reasonable price. I've heard Diamonds rails are cut to length instead of shimmed but shimmed rails on the Brunswicks play fine.
'Fine' how?? You can shim a pocket a little bit, say from 5" to 4.5" but any more than that and the table plays like shit. I know because my local spot has some nice GC4's that are shimmed to about 4.25 maybe a tad smaller and the pocket facings are like concrete. Plus the mouth-throat dimensions are screwed too when you shim a lot.
snookered_again
Well-known member
Phenolic plastic (phenol-aldehyde resin) is considered to be the foundation of the plastic molding industry. It contributes to a large percentage of all molded plastic products and is used almost exclusively for industrial plastic materials.
Yes it is but you said all their rails were plastic is false . PRC is just an option that goes over the poplar rails how is it any different than brunswick putting formica or veneer over their rails.? They still offer solid Oak , Maple, Ash rails maybe more. The PRC is a great option for pool halls or bars or anywhere that would see rough use.
They are great tables when professionally restored but that costs money. Me being in Canada by the time I found a good GC , had it shipped to me restored most of the table , had the subrails shipped to the US to be extended , new cushions and cloth , it would be more than a new Diamond.
I bought a 9 foot pro-am with pockets shimmed to 4 3/8". Simonis 860, one piece slate. My only regret was the one piece slate...it can only be installed in a ground level room, so unless you have a huge walkout basement, it's likely going into the garage...or your living room, which will thrill the wife. The table plays better than anything in existence, and is built to last generations. You'll only buy one pool table, so why settle?