Why different shaft diameters for different games?

Patrick Johnson said:
I can see how it seems this way, but these are both mistaken. Different tip shapes may result in tiny differences - not tip sizes.

pj
chgo
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This is correct.

So much misinformation floating around here. Shaft/tip diameter will not effect spin. You can draw it out with a piece of paper pretty easy.

Tip curvature plays a small roll, but assuming a consistent tip curvature then shaft diameter will not matter until/unless you reach the edge of the tip, where the skinner shaft would hit the miscue limit earlier
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I can see how it seems this way, but these are both mistaken. Different tip shapes may result in tiny differences - not tip sizes.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
And unintentional spin is only occurs from an inaccurate stroke.

No matter what size the tip, the contact patch doesn't change. Much

Knowing the relationship/visual of the Tip on the CB is what matters.

In the old days there were plenty of Pro players with 14mm tips. They got plenty of action on the CB. They also knew what they were doing, after Hitting a Million Balls.
 
Stew boo said:
It's an easy test to do, take a large and small diameter shaft and hit the same point on the cue ball while aiming at a specific point on the rail with side spin using the same speed. You will notice the smaller shafts causes the cue ball to go more left or right when it hits the rail.
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What about the different size tip would make you hit the CB in different places?

If they have the same shape (curvature), then the smaller one is simply the larger one with a thin outer layer removed - so unless you're hitting on the edge there's no difference. If you hit on the edge, your tip is too flat.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
What about the different size tip would make you hit the CB in different places?
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The hardness of the tip is the Huge factor. Cole explained to me using a ball bearing vs a spong and how reliable the bounce off a hard surface would be.
Pretty sure the high tech mechanical engineer could show the difference in contact patch size for equal radius but different hardness. Elkmaster to phenolic with a few in between. 🤷‍♂️
 
The hardness effects the size and duration of the contact. Cole delivered his rock hard waterbuffalo tip with a precision that the smaller and shorter contact with the tip required.
Softer tips can be more forgiving but not best for the high performance shots. As Mike Dooley would say, "the ones so good a Nun would take her clothes off. No Wait, the whole convent." 🤷‍♂️
 
My favorite fire power display was Cole's straight back bank with a dead kiss. From the foot string Cole delivered whitey to the object ball and it popped straight up as the object ball traveled 6 inches to the rail and rebounded into the heart. The cueball went about 12 inches straight up and fell back into the exact spot it had launched from.
 
gregcantrall said:
Pretty sure the high tech mechanical engineer could show the difference in contact patch size for equal radius but different hardness.
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Hitting the CB in the same place produces the same spin/speed ratio, regardless of tip hardness or contact patch size. A harder tip transfers more of the stroke force, but that doesn't change spin effect (and it can be duplicated by merely stroking a little harder).

pj
chgo
 
Can't disrespectful that soft tip Masters. I remember when ping pong went from hard to soft paddle surface. It's a different style that favor a longer and larger contact patch.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Hitting the CB in the same place produces the same spin/speed ratio, regardless of tip hardness or contact patch size. A harder tip transfers more of the stroke force, but that doesn't change spin effect (and it can be duplicated by merely stroking a little harder).

pj
chgo
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What's your authority on this position?
Has there been slow mo testing done?
 
Texas Carom Club said:
Hey don’t turn this into another practice thread with limitless ramblings
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Ooops sorry. 😉 I ass ume I have reached "the limit "
I’ve forgot how to use multiple quotes. Shirley I am allowed another post to engage Patrick Johnson on the Common Sense and logic field of friendly strife. 🤷‍♂️
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Simple physics and logic. What's yours?
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Cool, common sense and logic it shall be.
Cole is an authority I have referenced.
I have no degrees in Physics or Logic but a 101 understanding of each. (I hope 😉).
It seems obvious that hardness effects compression and deflection in a collision. Logic tells me that the harder object will compress and or deflect less in a colision. Cole's spong vs ball bearing analogy seems easy to follow and obvious. Hitting tennis balls and baseballs with a bat is a personal experience that is similar. My personal experience playing ping pong with first sandpaper, then gripping rubber paddles provides another analogy comparison.
Marty Reasman was a ping pong hustler with sandpaper paddle. He produced unrivaled accuracy doing halftime shows with the Globetrotters. The newfound grip that the soft rubber provides changed the game.
My logic tells me that a soft tip of equal radious will spend longer time and larger contact patch than a hard one. The difference might be extremely small when it comes to a leather cue tip vs phenolic. Extremely small is relative and in this case a small difference can yield a large difference in the result.
 
gregcantrall said:
Cool, common sense and logic it shall be
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Or a simple test: shoot the CB straight into a rail with maximum side spin and compare how much angle change you get with different tips.

- use a striped ball with the stripe vertical and facing you
- hit on the edge of the stripe
- check chalk mark after each shot to be sure

I’ve done this test multiple times myself and found no difference between tips (or shafts).

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Or a simple test: shoot the CB straight into a rail with maximum side spin and compare how much angle change you get with different tips.

- use a striped ball with the stripe vertical and facing you
- hit on the edge of the stripe
- check chalk mark after each shot to be sure

I’ve done this test multiple times myself and found no difference between tips (or shafts).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Be careful using facts on these kool-aid swillers. ;)
 
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