Small pockets ruining the game

[MattPoland]

So many things come to mind. First is we are talking about what Matchroom does in their own events. This should be viewed as a professional standard and not anything the amateurs need to imagine themselves playing in.

Second is that I’m glad we are assessing the merits of smaller pockets rather than bigger. Again, 4.25”+ may be fine for amateurs but it’s too easy for professionals. And I think we’ve see 4” is in the ballpark. The best pros are firing in balls center pocket from distance when their technique is supporting them.

Third is that Matchroom is creating a production. To me the key ingredient is tension. You want the moment to moment to have a weight and gravity to it. You don’t want to feel like a pro cannot runout an easy rack. But you also want it to be possible they could turnover a rack with a rattled ball if they get a little too loose and sloppy.

At this stage. Matchroom is tinkering. It’s what they do. This is papa bear. They’ve done baby bear before. I assume mama bear is coming. At least we are talking about an equalizer that’s level for the playing field.

I think I was a bit more concerned about what appeared to be some unlevel tables. The balls down the rails seemed to have some rolloff to me.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Agreed with Neils. It’s stupid at this point.

If pockets are any tighter than 4-1/8”, the pocket facing angles absolutely must be altered from 142–143° down to no more than 140°. Otherwise, even with new cloth, the pockets become unplayable even for very high-level players to play their game and showcase their skills.

 

[Swighey]

Feijin wasn't making excuses for losing or being a whiner in my view.

He has taken issue with certain changes by MR now and then, and I think he has every right. Players should speak up if they think a change in the game is for the worse. Feijin has earned the right to speak up, and unlike younger players, he feels he can speak more freely because he is nearing the end of his career.

Yes, MR has been good for the game, but not every change they make is for the better. The only way they will know if they've created a problem if it players speak up, like Niels did.

From what Karl Boyes indicated, other players also complained anonymously about the 3.9 inch pockets. It came up an interview with Frazer, too.

Agree. Interestingly, Neils Feijen is also a proponent of alternate breaks.

 

[gregcantrall]

for very high-level players to play their game and showcase their skills.

In the last snooker event Ronnie lost to Stewart Bingham. He did however put his skills on display. One shot that comes to mind is a ball near the side rail and 3/4 table from the pocket. Ronnie drilled it at warp speed to draw shape. That snooker pocket going down the rail is Almost impossible.

 

[BlueRaider]

At what point should we stop reducing pocket size? You okay with 3.5" pockets?

This is the crux of the issue IMO. At what point do people say "enough?" It's obvious that a certain contingent of fans will never say that until the pros are playing Russian pyramid.

I think there's a tipping point where the game becomes almost unplayable or at least the prevailing playstyle changes dramatically, and 3.9" is approaching it if not already there. Do we need to actually get to that point and witness it for some people to admit that too tight of pockets is a real thing for professional players?

 

[tim913]

I’m glad to see the increase in popularity and prize money but don’t watch the matches with itty bitty pockets

 

[Flakeandrun]

Pool should have standardized pockets decades ago.

A lot more could have been standardised too. Universal rules and equipment should be a given, and I find it quite unusual that no one has done this to date (yet people still wonder why it has peaked and troughed in terms of popularity over time)

This is true! Brings to mind a comparison of pool vs snooker. I think it was Stephen Hendry but might have been another snooker champion that said, "the comparison is like put put golf compared to The Masters."

This is my dad's attitude. Doesn't matter what new adventure, or which player I come up against in my time playing pool, that has got me giddy like a school girl. He couldn't give a rats ass unless I am talking snooker.

One shot that comes to mind is a ball near the side rail and 3/4 table from the pocket. Ronnie drilled it at warp speed to draw shape. That snooker pocket going down the rail is Almost impossible.

Why he's considered to be an absolute freak. If you can get through the grinding safety, there's some similar insane shot making to be seen in Chinese 8-ball.

I think there's a tipping point where the game becomes almost unplayable or at least the prevailing playstyle changes dramatically, and 3.9" is approaching it if not already there. Do we need to actually get to that point and witness it for some people to admit that too tight of pockets is a real thing for professional players?

I don't think the 3.9" was even intentional. I think that was the best they could achieve across the tables, given that there is no template. Then they came up with the excuse that "Table A is harder than Table B, so we had to..." - I also think those pockets were close enough to 4" at the widest point to make it kind of a 'meh' point. I do agree with the person who mentioned altering the facing angle of the jaws. I think 4" and maintaining that as a standard is imperative. Constant change is where we will see more and more whining and bitching coming into the fray.

 

[gregcantrall]

3 Ball is the Future.
Advertising space available.

A set would include
1 base and 3 targets

Aspecial chance to say thank you Dr Cue.
He's giving away valuable knowledge. Not sure how long The Westgate event lasts but he's "working his ass off" to use a colloquium.

 

[gregcantrall]

The Dr teaching rhyth6 while I am still working on balance. I never could ride a surf board or even state board. rhythm yeah rhythm, it's all in the delivery.

 

[gregcantrall]

3 Ball Rules? Makes me remember this.

 

[skogstokig]

So many things come to mind. First is we are talking about what Matchroom does in their own events. This should be viewed as a professional standard and not anything the amateurs need to imagine themselves playing in.

Second is that I’m glad we are assessing the merits of smaller pockets rather than bigger. Again, 4.25”+ may be fine for amateurs but it’s too easy for professionals. And I think we’ve see 4” is in the ballpark. The best pros are firing in balls center pocket from distance when their technique is supporting them.

Third is that Matchroom is creating a production. To me the key ingredient is tension. You want the moment to moment to have a weight and gravity to it. You don’t want to feel like a pro cannot runout an easy rack. But you also want it to be possible they could turnover a rack with a rattled ball if they get a little too loose and sloppy.

At this stage. Matchroom is tinkering. It’s what they do. This is papa bear. They’ve done baby bear before. I assume mama bear is coming. At least we are talking about an equalizer that’s level for the playing field.

I think I was a bit more concerned about what appeared to be some unlevel tables. The balls down the rails seemed to have some rolloff to me.

well written. i think last year's events were configured right (and that was 4"), so i don't get the change at all. the rasson argument emily had doesn't hold water.

to add what you write on the tension and production, race length is a factor too. bucket pockets would need long races and that's a hard sell to their broadcasters. which in turn probably mirrors the attention span of the audience.

 

[Cameron Smith]

Personally, I’d like to see another event or two with the smaller pockets before I make any judgement.

The players have likely had their practice tables set up to 4” and have prepped for that. Maybe others stick to 4.25” for practice and adjust downwards. I think we saw a lot of players caught off guard and trying to adjust playing strategies on the fly. My feeling is that top players will get their tables adjusted if matchroom holds firm on this pocket size and some level of normalcy will resume. Albeit with a few more misses, which is what MR is hoping for.

I think MR is hoping to find a balance where pot success is closer to 92-93% (instead of 97-98%) but players are still playing aggressively. I also expect someone like Karl is consulting on this to an extent, because I think they must realize there will be a point where players will need to start bumping balls off rails and banking balls rather attempting a pot down the rail.

 

[skogstokig]

Personally, I’d like to see another event or two with the smaller pockets before I make any judgement.

The players have likely had their practice tables set up to 4” and have prepped for that. Maybe others stick to 4.25” for practice and adjust downwards. I think we saw a lot of players caught off guard and trying to adjust playing strategies on the fly. My feeling is that top players will get their tables adjusted if matchroom holds firm on this pocket size and some level of normalcy will resume. Albeit with a few more misses, which is what MR is hoping for.

I think MR is hoping to find a balance where pot success is closer to 92-93% (instead of 97-98%) but players are still playing aggressively. I also expect someone like Karl is consulting on this to an extent, because I think they must realize there will be a point where players will need to start bumping balls off rails and banking balls rather attempting a pot down the rail.

higher prize money will shrink those pockets too. i don't think even the coldest mfers on tour will be unshaken by a 250k final setting, not filler, kaci, lil ko or anyone

 

[smiling_Hans]

IMO it ruins aggressive run-out style pool. Leads to 'cinch' pool and endless safety battles. I've watched pro pool on super tight tables and to me its boring to watch. You like the sound of your own voice bud. Too many words to not say much. Bye-bye.

Agree 100%

 

[gregcantrall]

They should give a participation award........A small stuffed lamb that bleets when you turn it over. Tight pockets definitely ruined snooker......well ruined it for the Pool Players!!!!!@ Right?

 

[Ghost of OBC]

It remains amazing to see, in 2024, when every other sport on earth is trying to speed things up to match shortened attention spans, that we are talking about slowing the game down. We invented Texas Express rules to encourage more runnouts, and now people are moaning about too many runouts. Anyone remember Seagrams Seven Ball on ESPN? In the late 90s even TE nineball was deemed too slow for TV. Nineball = fast, lots of runouts, lots of break shots. Want to watch something slower? I'm sure there is a one-pocket tournament on YouTube somewhere.

 

[The_JV]

There is a tipping point with pocket size. I agree with whomever already mentioned that this is meant to be a test for professionals and not what amateurs should be playing on.

I got to experience the 4"ers at the USopen last year. I'm a decent potter for an amateur and it was a humbling experience. The best adapted and ran deep. That's the point. During any given event, the best on that day should be rewarded and those off pace should be punished. I highly doubt you'll see any pro string together dominance over the course of months with <=4" pockets.

That said, it does get to a point where you start neutering the game. Even the 4" forced seasoned pros to alter the normal approach and adopt a 'boring' game. I'd hate to see the pockets get smaller.

 

[smiling_Hans]

I like the runouts because it means when its the other guy's turn then he better do the same.

Now if you don't like this then they have alternating breaks to combat this. Very similar to tennis with the alternating serve.

I think they are trying to European-ize American pool. Taking our game and making the pockets smaller similar to their snooker counterpart. They are just not use to this fast paced game. The 9ball game was made popular by the quickness and how they can broadcast it on television and it doesn't bother the audience. Now we're back at square one.

 

[Colonel]

It remains amazing to see, in 2024, when every other sport on earth is trying to speed things up to match shortened attention spans, that we are talking about slowing the game down. We invented Texas Express rules to encourage more runnouts, and now people are moaning about too many runouts. Anyone remember Seagrams Seven Ball on ESPN? In the late 90s even TE nineball was deemed too slow for TV. Nineball = fast, lots of runouts, lots of break shots. Want to watch something slower? I'm sure there is a one-pocket tournament on YouTube somewhere.

Great post.

 

[The_JV]

Anyone have any stats of rack length with pockets above and below the 4" threshold...?

I don't recall any marathons driven by pocket size.