Can playing with a 11.75 shaft make you better?

maha said:
until you get really decent at the game a half tip of english is more than you should be using for almost any situation.

then when you get real good almost any realistic shot can be handled with a half tip of english.
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Joe Tucker taught me how to play. His approach was to immediately introduce spin and the possibilities that it creates with cue ball position from the very beginning. I ended up being very comfortable applying maximum spin while pocketing balls, and practiced to fill in knowledge gaps about tangent lines and stroke fundamentals later.

I can't say if it was a better way to learn because I can't go back and try the traditional way, but it definitely kept my interest. Maybe it is why I like 1C, 3C and 1P more than other games.

The only way to get good at this game is to practice effectively and be creative about setting small goals and trying many different types of situations. Have the discipline to practice things by yourself rather than play others. Invent your own games for practice. Use variety. Just like learning a language.
 
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xRASHx said:
I know alot of shaft diameter is preference, but if you had never played pool in your life and were just starting the game in this new age of LD shafts would you choose a 11.75 shaft? I would think it would be best to learn with since they have the lowest deflection usually. Would love to hear your opinions on the subject.
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A smaller shaft alters the play characteristics of the cue, by simultaneously a) demanding more precision from the player, and b) providing more things one can do with the cue.

The smaller the shaft (down to 11.0mm or so) the less energy you can put through the shaft (it bends more because it is less stiff).
The smaller tip requires tighter placement of the tip at contact,
The smaller shaft enables more delicacy in hitting CB and OB,
The combination requires that the player must be more deliberate.

If the player can get the play characteristics in his head, he will be able to
place the CB more accurately, and
avoid interference more readily
 
It’s a good question. I was playing with a 12.9 revo since they came out because honestly it’s all that was available at that time. The 12.4 was always sold out. I bought a new cue from a friend at one point that had the 12.4. I played with it for a few months and I just felt it Made the game more difficult And I liked the way the 12.9 felt in my bridge.
I guess the only thing I can compare to is golf. I felt it was like the differed between playing with forged irons and cavity backs. Forged you can shape shots better and spin it more but your swing needs to be spot on. Cavity backs its harder to apply a lot of spin and shape shots but they have a bigger sweet spot so your not penalized as much for a not so perfect swing. That’s just my personal Opinion .. not sure there is any science to it at all lol
 
good comparison trob.

you can fine tune most equipment for any sport or game to give the top players a small edge. its just because that they can exploit that small edge.
but for the vast majority of non top players the specialized equipment not only doesn't let them exploit that supposed edge it also hurts their game in other ways..

but its human nature to want to use the same stuff the top ones use. its kind of like then you identify yourself as one.
 
MitchAlsup said:
The smaller tip requires tighter placement of the tip at contact,
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This is a common belief, and understandable, but mistaken. A smaller tip is simply a larger tip with a thin outer layer removed - the removed layer was seldom if ever used anyway, so no real change.

pj
chgo
 
except a smaller tip means thinner shaft. and thinner shafts gives more chances for your cue to be misaligned during your stroke.

the average player i believe anyway does better with a thicker shaft. and that has been around 13 mm for a reason.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
This is a common belief, and understandable, but mistaken. A smaller tip is simply a larger tip with a thin outer layer removed - the removed layer was seldom if ever used anyway, so no real change.

pj
chgo
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True if the tips are shaped the same. Not true if the tips are optimally shaped.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
What’s “optimally shaped”? Why does it differ by size?

pj
chgo
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It is so the tip is shaped such that the edge of the tip is tangent to the miscue limit on the cueball. The drawings below show the difference in placement of the centerline of the cue on a 11.75mm vs a 13mm cue.

13mm.JPG
12mm.JPG


The difference at the miscue limit is ~.6mm, or ~3% of the total offset. This assumes you can use the actual very edge of the tip, which isn't realistic, but the difference increases if the effective/usable tip diameter is reduced.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
What’s “optimally shaped”? Why does it differ by size?
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DeeDeeCues said:
It is so the tip is shaped such that the edge of the tip is tangent to the miscue limit on the cueball.
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Oh, I see - I"ve posted about the same thing in the past (pic below). So long as you choose a tip radius no bigger than your tip width (so it includes at least 60 degrees of arc) you'll be able to hit the miscue limit before reaching the tip's edge.

pj
chgo

60 degree tip.png
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Oh, I see - I"ve posted about the same thing in the past (pic below). So long as you choose a tip radius no bigger than your tip width (so it includes at least 60 degrees of arc) you'll be able to hit the miscue limit before reaching the tip's edge.

pj
chgo

View attachment 764844
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You know what, this made me think about something.

The diagrams above illustrate that the tip curvature (nickel, dime, etc) and the shaft diameter affect the maximum incident angle upon the cue ball by some small amount. Due to how static friction works, we have all been assuming that the miscue limit is when the cue is offset to the point that the exact edge of the tip is tangent with the ball. I think this makes sense to everyone.

However, we have all also been assuming that the deformation of the leather tip is uniform for all points along the tip radius. Perhaps the deformation is a bit greater near the very edge of the tip compared to the center. It would be similar to the effect you would see if you struck a wooden board with a hammer on it's face compared to its corner. Or another example would be a pool rail rebound compared to coming off of the point of a rail cut. If the edge/corner of the tip deforms more then the friction would be greater.

Therefore I am thinking that we can actually cue out further from center than the theoretical miscue limit, due to the additional friction created by tip edge deformation. This would mean that a softer tip that deforms more may have an affect, but to what degree may be significant or negligible.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Evidence?


What do you think the reason is for 13mm?

pj
chgo
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okay pat. 60 years of experience of playing well.
13 mm or at least 12.5 to 12.75 seems to give me the best results and with 13 being optimal for me.
also the test of time has made 13 standard for tips. so that says the demand has been for that size.
usually demand or opinion in a large quantity of people tends to prove a point.

13 mm also leads to a thicker shaft.

and ive found the thinner shafts move around more in your bridge whether closed or open. and that makes sense.
no hard fast objective results to post.
 
It's a serious topic but not that serious.

No need for diagram and measurements in accordance to the cue ball.

A mm off center is not drastic enough to effect the cue ball's movement.
 
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