Re-rack question - 8-ball

[Flakeandrun]

Relating to a weekly private league set-up - races to 10, alternate break, call shot 8-ball, 8 on the break is a rack win - 3 points for a match win, 1 point for taking 7 racks

Played 4 games, while everyone else has played 6 and I was top of the league by 3 points (and +30 on racks) - I had been on holiday previously

Have a new tip, and hadn't played for a week, and I was set to play second in the league last night. I was annoyed going into it for those two reasons alone, but also as we schedule the games ourselves, and he told me he was unavailable for every day except the day where I finish late from work and am up early the next day... I mentioned it being the only day I didn't want to play, and he said it was the only day he could play... No alternative given and game must be played in the week or I would have to forfeit as I'd have fallen more than 2 games in arrears. The tosser told me he had work, which I respect, but then came in saying how he'd spent the whole previous afternoon playing pool...

The game is pretty even throughout, and to be honest that was mostly my fault. I got in my own head about a few things.
- He was standing around the edge, or leaning on the table during my shot - which I called him out on
- Making me play hangers on the 8
- I scratched on the 8 twice - once on a bank which I over juiced, and once on a long 8-ball that rattled and went across the short rail to the opposite corner
- He made two 8 balls on the break
- He flat denied playing a push shot on two occasions
- The fact he brought two friends to sit and talk the whole way through the match

Anyway, here's the real stink - It's hill-hill

I'm on the 8, which is frozen to the short rail and the four ball. The 8 is closest to the pocket. I pot his 6 ball and deliberately scratch. He runs of the 4 leaving both frozen. I push out to purposefully scratch. This goes on a loop 3 times over! I look at him and suggest a re-rack. Him and his friends say that's not possible. I asked if we should check the rules, and they said that's not possible during a game and would constitute as cheating - implying I should already know and make my own choice - So I did, I shake my head and push them both into the pocket. F that nonsense

Nearly got heated to the point of hands being thrown, mostly because the three of them wouldn't shut the F up... (would have been dumb on his part in my local, and a few heads had started to turn our way at that point). I stuck my cue in the locker and peaced out to lean on the counter and watch some other friends play, leaving them to continue discussing, but not actually looking up the rules...

My understanding was - "In the unlikely event that a game should become stalemated, meaning that neither player can, or wants to make use of ball-in-hand, the balls are re-racked and the player that had the break at the start of the stalemated game breaks again"

Here's a shit drawing for reference - WHAT IS THE ACTUAL DEAL IN THIS SCENARIO? Maybe someone like @Bob Jewett could clarify the usual procedure

Still feeling a little salty, as most would be... but no real money on the line (league winner gets $100 and a trophy), I'm still top of the table and I went home to homemade pizza and titties - Life's not that bad

 

[Flakeandrun]

TL;DR - for those who don't want to read - I know I waffle on

The real stink - It's hill-hill

I'm on the 8, which is frozen to the short rail and the four ball. The 8 is closest to the pocket. I pot his 6 ball and deliberately scratch. He runs of the 4 leaving both frozen. I push out to purposefully scratch. This goes on a loop 3 time. I look at him and suggest a re-rack. Him and his friends say that's not possible. I asked if we should check the rules, and they said that's not possible during a game and would constitute as cheating - implying I should already know and make my own choice - So I did, I shake my head and push them both into the pocket.

My understanding was - "In the unlikely event that a game should become stalemated, meaning that neither player can, or wants to make use of ball-in-hand, the balls are re-racked and the player that had the break at the start of the stalemated game breaks again"

What is the correct course of action in this scenario of what would be endless offering up of BIH?

Want to know for future reference TIA

 

[MitchAlsup]

Looks to me like you can hit the 8-ball (very softly) and have CB touch the rail and just barely bounce off (2mm) and have him in a lock up safety.

 

[Flakeandrun]

Looks to me like you can hit the 8-ball (very softly) and have CB touch the rail and just barely bounce off (2mm) and have him in a lock up safety.

I potted the 6 and left the cueball there for him. Even with all my words I wasn’t so clear it seems. Maybe just my bad diagram.

He put me the other side of the four.

I would have intentionally fouled over and over and over again. This pattern went on three times. He put me that side of the four. I pushed out a foul.

 

[Flakeandrun]

There’s no three foul rule, so I’m looking for clarification in the event of such a stalemate. A friend who is a referee said in such an event, a re-rack should be taken, and that’s what he would do, and he added that it is at the will of the BIH player to suggest/decide if that should be taken (which inevitably they would because I would play a foul over and over and over. As I had been doing - and I’m sure he wouldn’t risk moving those balls as many times as I’m willing to foul)

My understanding was as described above in the post. The referee suggested the same. Hoping to clarify that is right or wrong.

The opponent refused any form of checking in game. Referred to it as cheating and that I should know the rule. That’s why I pushed them both in with my hand.

He himself clearly didn’t know after the game. I don’t need to win that badly

But I would like to clarify in case such an occurrence happens in a higher stakes game.

 

[straightline]

You needed to play that out for many generations until some descendant of the guy tried to sneak up and do you in. Instant DQ.

 

[Flakeandrun]

You needed to play that out for many generations until some descendant of the guy tried to sneak up and do you in. Instant DQ.

If there's no limit on fouls, and nothing to stop me playing a 'professional foul' (to use a snooker term), we could have been there for an eternity. You're right. His attitude and response to me asking if it's a re-rack had me feeling that Hulk urge to SMASH So I chose to end it. I'm still top of the league, It's a league for only $100 and frankly, he's not worth the back of my hand.

But still, would like to know the actual ruling in that scenario of endless foul/stalemate, in case it comes up in a game that actually matters.

 

[Flakeandrun]

Just to clarify the image - it shows where I started with the intentional foul on the 6 and finished with the cueball. He glanced and tucked me behind the 4. I fouled. His BIH he glanced and tucked me behind the 4 - this multiplied by 3.

Then I asked about the Re-rack, and he told me I should know, and that seeking clarification was cheating (he himself didn't know)

I was quite placid in how I asked for the re-rack... He obviously values this nothing game against me more than precious seconds of his life

 

[jimmyco]

I think they heard of your legendary kicking skills and wanted to witness it for themselves.
You disappointed them.

 

[maha]

that's what you get for playing in one of those cheap idiot leagues where players who win get almost nothing and argue and play shitty .

your first shot should have left him behind the 8 instead of making the 6 then he would foul and you could bump his ball over and then get him to foul again and win with ball in hand.
or skin the 8 and send him up table with the 8 now open and him nothing.
but what you started is why they have the 3 foul rule.

and why a new tip and not playing for a week sends you into an annoying mood?
you need to not let little things mess with you. him having talking friends who cares, why would that upset your shooting and make you want to fight.

 

[Flakeandrun]

I think they heard of your legendary kicking skills and wanted to witness it for themselves.
You disappointed them.

What is getting kicked? nothing. If I didn't have pizza and an alluring GF, maybe I would have been stubborn enough to spend 30 minutes of my life in the perpetual foul to BIH loop lol

 

[Jimmorrison]

Eff this guy, I’m going with the pizza and the GF!

 

[Flakeandrun]

that's what you get for playing in one of those cheap idiot leagues where players who win get almost nothing and argue and play shitty

Well, it is quite a nice social league of upper intermediate players. Most of them I enjoy playing against.

your first shot should have left him behind the 8 instead of making the 6 then he would foul and you could bump his ball over and then get him to foul again and win with ball in hand.
or skin the 8 and send him up table with the 8 now open and him nothing.
but what you started is why they have the 3 foul rule.

There is no 3-foul active in 8-ball. I also was reluctant to detach the 8 from its position. Total nob, but a competent player.
I think alternatively, I could have given a free ball without making the 6, and had him try to break them out which would have sunk the 8.
The 8 is too close to the pocket to fit a ball between it and the pocket.

and why a new tip and not playing for a week sends you into an annoying mood?

Because the game needed to be completed this week, the tip is still a bit mushy. Not playing for a week made me feel a bit rusty going into a game against a person that I have always had bad energy playing.

you need to not let little things mess with you.

Totally true, and temperament has always been an aspect of my game I have worked on developing.

him having talking friends who cares, why would that upset your shooting and make you want to fight.

They are talking through every shot, he is standing in the line of every shot. The whole game. That's some bullshit when many other players in the league treat the games respectfully, competitively and after the match, socially. Had some great discussions, and gained some good experiences so far. It's not a bar. It's a group of (Mostly) upper-intermediate friends and a couple of local pros, who are looking to play competitively and improve their game. But this felt like some bar banger game by the end

 

[Flakeandrun]

Eff this guy, I’m going with the pizza and the GF!

Exactly my thoughts! Like I said, I was annoyed, but life's not so bad!

Do want to find out the correct action in that scenario. I'd be devastated if it was a cash game.

 

[Sheldon]

8 ball rules vary. You'll have to answer your own question by trying to find the rules the league plays by.

The BCA 8 ball stalemate rule states that if a referee or both players agree that moving or pocketing any object ball will result in a loss, the balls will be re-racked and the original breaker will break again. This rule can only be used when there are two object balls and the 8 ball remaining on the table.




A stalemate occurs when neither player can or wants to use ball-in-hand after three consecutive turns at the table by each player. There is no minimum number of turns that must occur before a game is stalemated.

 

[Flakeandrun]

8 ball rules vary. You'll have to answer your own question by trying to find the rules the league plays by.

It's a privately organized league, the guy I am playing is the guy who organized it... It was actually from a suggestion I made months ago in a group chat of players in my district, and he followed through with it.

From what I can tell, it seems like standard call shot 8-ball rule set. So, I want to know the general consensus for such a stalemate situation...

My understanding was - "In the unlikely event that a game should become stalemated, meaning that neither player can, or wants to make use of ball-in-hand, the balls are re-racked and the player that had the break at the start of the stalemated game breaks again"

He's someone who gets a boner out of being a nit, and he will happily tell you he enjoys the conflict. Hence why I didn't argue with him. He got all aggressive when I put the balls in the pocket, and said I was disrespectful. I just said I didn't want to waste my time. After, I asked again why wasn't I allowed to check or confirm, and asked how it was cheating to do so. He got close to my face, and I walked away. Went to watch a couple other friends and chat with the owner (can't just smack people the same way you can in your own country lol)

Saw it as temperament conditioning. I am quite friendly with one of the guys he brought along. He messaged me after about how ridiculous it was.

 

[jimmyco]

Perhaps he was claiming you would be cheating by asking as it is your responsibility to know the rules.

Without a ref, a stalemate must be agreed upon by both players.

 

[Flakeandrun]

Perhaps he was claiming you would be cheating by asking as it is your responsibility to know the rules.

Yeah, that's what he was saying.
But he is the organizer, and all I have is the information he posted in the group chat lol - he hasn't got a F clue himself.
Everyone has been quite good with arranging, respectful of time and the spirit of the game thus far.

Without a ref, a stalemate must be agreed upon by both players.

It's been a league played competitively, but with a light side to it. Simulating tournament play, with pretty interesting discussion from players of different styles after the games.
Everyone has other commitments, and have generally been sensitive to time taken. The guy I am playing has had allowances made for him multiple times already. Hence why I was annoyed before we even started, he knew that was the least preferred day for me to play, and also knew I had to play or forfeit the game.

Regarding the in game situation, I told him that this could go on indefinitely, and he said so what, and implied a stalemate, or such a concept doesn't exist. I asked to check. Then he implied that would be cheating.

He basically wanted a win at any cost and is jerk-off.

 

[Sheldon]

You just can't reason with some folks. They will show you exactly who they are when they're under pressure.
Best to chalk it up as a lesson (conditioning). It would be nice to have some clarification on the rules, but it doesn't seem likely.

 

[Flakeandrun]

You just can't reason with some folks. They will show you exactly who they are when they're under pressure.

I knew a lot about his character before the game. I am not surprised.

Best to chalk it up as a lesson (conditioning). It would be nice to have some clarification on the rules, but it doesn't seem likely.

That's why I was hoping someone like Bob would Chime in, or someone else who has been in the same situation. As I said, I'd be a lot more butt hurt if there was cash or something on the line.