Traditional wood shafts making comeback?

[trob]

Carbon shafts are stiff and lifeless. And dirty. They work just fine and some people like them. Not me, after playing with carbon for several weeks, I went back to a wood shaft and instantly realized I would never be going back to cf.

While I find the stiff and lifeless and dirty to be funny I think you are spot on with with the rest lol It’s why I say wood shafts never left. It was the new thing. Lots of people tried them and were like me and liked them better and many were like you and thought wood is better to me. Neither one of us is wrong. I don’t necessarily think cf will make you play better but it’s definitely a different hit. Whether it’s a good or bad difference is up to the player.

 

[slide13]

Carbon shafts are also still fairly new and can vary greatly in their feel.

Go try a Revo and a Jacoby Black V4 side by side, massive massive difference in feel. They do perform fairly similarly but feel drastically different. The Revo is stiff and feels and sounds like it. The Black V4 plays much softer and has a very different sound and feel. Both are good just very different.

I have a feeling we'll see more and more focus on tuning the feel and sound of carbon because I suspect we're getting to the practical limits of low deflection already. But tunning weight, balance, stiffness, and feel/sound will be what separates newer versions of carbon shafts in the future more than their performance.

 

[billiards_watch]

Wood shafts never went anywhere.

I've seen an attitude change because of the carbon hype, I think carbon shafts are good before people think I'm bashing on them, but its not as easy as slapping a carbon shaft on your cue and think its going to shoot great. If you buy a cue with a carbon shaft then perhaps it shoots great because someone had to test it. I don't know if these cues are being tested or they are just being mixed and matched.

 

[billiards_watch]

Carbon shafts are also still fairly new and can vary greatly in their feel.

Go try a Revo and a Jacoby Black V4 side by side, massive massive difference in feel. They do perform fairly similarly but feel drastically different. The Revo is stiff and feels and sounds like it. The Black V4 plays much softer and has a very different sound and feel. Both are good just very different.

I have a feeling we'll see more and more focus on tuning the feel and sound of carbon because I suspect we're getting to the practical limits of low deflection already. But tunning weight, balance, stiffness, and feel/sound will be what separates newer versions of carbon shafts in the future more than their performance.

People are randomly slapping these carbon shafts to their butts and every cue butt will cause it to feel different.

If it was that easy then a cheap Chinese cue with a carbon shaft will do.

People are assuming all cue butts are equal and we just pick shafts. I hate to add to the dilemma but you guys also need to choose a proper cue butt.

Also, you don't want to be another one of those guys with a carbon shaft and the fit is horrible. I've seen plenty of those. Shaft is either too big or too small. Never flush and perfect.

 

[sciarco]

I always played with wood shaft my Tiger sneaky is over 10 yrs old straight as an arrow hits great ,i tried CF nothing against it just not for me.

 

[The_JV]

Yes, you are the only one seeing this. No one in my area is going back to wood, in any form.

Not that I live in the hot bed of pool talent in NA, but if you took a look at the equipment used by the upper crust in my neck of the woods. None of them are using CF. I have personally witnessed some of them switch to CF and come back to wood.

"None" is an absolute word, so let me rephrase that to "all I've laid eyes on".

 

[Matt_24]

Play with what feels good. If you can really play (have good fundamentals) you can switch between shafts pretty easily and still play at a certain level. Everything deflects to some degree. That isn't a concern. From there, it's just a matter of what feels good. When you are adjusting to a new shaft...and you miss, you'll see why (because you're not moving on the shot or jumping up) and your brain will adjust pretty quickly to start aiming correctly.

I've had cues from Southwest to Schon....tried, 314s to REVO...but I recently bought an entry level Meucci with a pro-shaft (and whatever tip comes on it), and I absolutely love how it feels. I couldn't believe it. That is my daily player. It's inexpensive, I play good with it, and because of the price, it's not "precious" in regard to dings, etc. No worries. Just my .02.

 

[billiards_watch]

Play with what feels good. If you can really play (have good fundamentals) you can switch between shafts pretty easily and still play at a certain level. Everything deflects to some degree. That isn't a concern. From there, it's just a matter of what feels good. When you are adjusting to a new shaft...and you miss, you'll see why (because you're not moving on the shot or jumping up) and your brain will adjust pretty quickly to start aiming correctly.

I've had cues from Southwest to Schon....tried, 314s to REVO...but I recently bought an entry level Meucci with a pro-shaft (and whatever tip comes on it), and I absolutely love how it feels. I couldn't believe it. That is my daily player. It's inexpensive, I play good with it, and because of the price, it's not "precious" in regard to dings, etc. No worries. Just my .02.

I love when people bring up Meucci and say they play with one.

I love Meucci and miss the red dot shaft. I can make the cue ball travel all around the world. LOL

Such a fantastic cue and shaft.

 

[Ascue]

I understand... My venture into LD was on the used market. Both with my OG 314 and then the Z2 I used for a very long time. It pained me to pay a new cue price for my OG Falcon plain butt w/ solid maple. Cue's for me where always about function, not form. Fast forward a couple of decades and I paid a custom cue price for a "not rare" Exceed. Zero purpose other than a present to myself. I quickly there after swapped out the wx700 for the 900 series. Not for the LD characteristics, but shaft diameter. I was just too comfortable with the Z2 that playing with anything =>12mm seemed like a batt.

I don't find anything CF related to be attractive. That's probably rooted in bias though. I can't get passed the whole fool w/ money likely hood of ownership Just my take. That said, if you're breaking into the game and have the money. Who am I to judge...?

after a long hiatus, I broke back into pool. I started with a peach then added a rogue and pro plus shaft. Btw the pro plus plays same as the rogue. I then acquired a a jacoby and later a black shaft for it. That Jacoby is the laminated cue butt. I believe it's their cheapest cue. It is lovely and plays well . These two set ups are awfully nice but decided to get a Andy gilbert merry widow. First thing I did was shot the ball length of table with hard right English. This was the standard maple that comes with. Now I can't say there is no deflection but I can see I can't detect it. It is at worst as good as a rogue, black or revo. At that point I decided I don't need cf. I've since picked up a barnhart, runde, jim pierce. All great shooters with standard maple. I play 8 ball against myself alternating these cues. All close in performance. And by the way, just picked up a pechauer PRO H 1 SNEAKY WITH WOOD TO WOOD joint. A little over 300. Do yourself a favor. I'm not kidding. Don't make fun of me, can't help myself, I like cues. The andy gilbert, in line with everything I've ever read on these forums is just a dandy . Barnhart, excellent, jim pierce a close 2nd to gilbert. Runde is great but I hate taking to places I hang out. Too pretty. And btw I have hit a few schons. The actual runde is better. I would buy a joss sneaky for 300 off ebay before i would buy a schon.. many say the stick doesn't make a difference. True to a point.

 

[Moe Szyslak]

Unlike a LOT of pool players, golfers in general are NOT married to the past.

This is so true. I don't know why, but it is. Golfers seem to read up on and are interested in the physics of it, etc too. Some new type of club comes out and they know all about it.

Meanwhile pool players are repeating the same myths that have been busted a million times over. Start a thread on tip size or something and you'll see them all come out. You can only get spin with a larger tip, you can only use a smaller tip if you're a pro because a bigger tip is more "forgiving", so much nonsense. No matter how many times it's been tested and busted, pool players will go to their grave insisting it's true. Even something like wearing a glove not long ago - god, you might as well have just taken a steaming dump on the pool table. Any change is threatening. There are guys still bitching about the faster cloth. Bring back that nap like a full head of hair like in the good ol days! I miss powering the ball two rails like in the good old days!

 

[Bavafongoul]

Wood shafts have progressed into a new dimension equal to any carbon shafts.
Sure, some CF shafts might have less defection than a Kielwood pool cue shaft.
But some KW shafts exhibit the same defection as CF shafts so what’s the issue?

If you have played with wood shafts for awhile, stick with wood but get a Kielwood
shaft. If you tried a KW shaft and were disappointed, it’s likely because the shaft was
too light for your cue. I’ve explained this so often that I won’t bother reciting it again.

And if you do not wear a glove and use a closed bridge, a KW shaft feels so much better
than any CF shaft. Plus, I can repair a KW shaft if it ever dents or gets a scratch or nick.
I use Renaissance Wax on my cue shafts which works great. CF don’t have the same feel.

Six months ago I got my first KW shaft after finding someone that builds a heavier version.
It plays better than any of my orig. maple shafts that weigh 4 ozs. My KW shaft is 3.81 ozs.
and I am having 2 KW shafts built that hopefully will be heavier than mine. It was an arduous
chore finding someone to build what I wanted but eventually I found a couple of cue makers
that said they could do it whereas over a dozen either declined or never even responded back.

Kielwood is the future of wood shafts. It looks gorgeous, exhibits less defection, feels better than
any CF shaft, can be repaired for cosmetic flaws if incurred and if you played for awhile with wood,
is a seamless transition from the maple shafts you’ve been using. Do your self a favor…check out
KW shafts. I wish it had been available when I had my custom cues originally built. KW is the future.

p.s. Always measure your shaft collar before buying any shaft. If the fit is off by .001 or .002 or .003,
the fit should be fine. Just tell the person building your KW shaft, or the source you are buying from,
what the joint collar is. I’ve found most KW shafts are built to fit a .840 joint collar but CF shafts aren’t.

 

[Zerksies]

Wood shafts have progressed into a new dimension equal to any carbon shafts.
Sure, some CF shafts might have less defection than a Kielwood pool cue shaft.
But some KW shafts exhibit the same defection as CF shafts so what’s the issue?

If you have played with wood shafts for awhile, stick with wood but get a Kielwood
shaft. If you tried a KW shaft and were disappointed, it’s likely because the shaft was
too light for your cue. I’ve explained this so often that I won’t bother reciting it again.

And if you do not wear a glove and use a closed bridge, a KW shaft feels so much better
than any CF shaft. Plus, I can repair a KW shaft if it ever dents or gets a scratch or nick.
I use Renaissance Wax on my cue shafts which works great. CF don’t have the same feel.

Six months ago I got my first KW shaft after finding someone that builds a heavier version.
It plays better than any of my orig. maple shafts that weigh 4 ozs. My KW shaft is 3.81 ozs.
and I am having 2 KW shafts built that hopefully will be heavier than mine. It was an arduous
chore finding someone to build what I wanted but eventually I found a couple of cue makers
that said they could do it whereas over a dozen either declined or never even responded back.

Kielwood is the future of wood shafts. It looks gorgeous, exhibits less defection, feels better than
any CF shaft, can be repaired for cosmetic flaws if incurred and if you played for awhile with wood,
is a seamless transition from the maple shafts you’ve been using. Do your self a favor…check out
KW shafts. I wish it had been available when I had my custom cues originally built. KW is the future.

Wood is still wood. It's a living breathing thing. It is going to react to any temperature or moisture that is in the room that it it in. It will twist and bend. It will never be equal to carbon it does not react as badly as wood will do to a tempurature change.

 

[Bavafongoul]

You still have a lot to learn about cue making if you whole heartedly believe what you just posted.
BTW, the wood died after being harvested & kiln dried before the cue maker got to build the shaft.

Wood was a living thing in its prior existence. Yes, it is less durable than carbon but offers superior
feel and likely a bit more defection but not a lot lot. It sounds & feels better than any CF shaft made.
In case you hadn’t noticed, the feel of the hit is pretty important for most pool players but not everyone.

It comes down to playing what you like the best. I’m simply stating KW shafts play better than maple &
offer less defection which seems to be what CF offers but at the cost of sacrificing the feel & acoustics.

 

[skor]

You still have a lot to learn about cue making if you whole heartedly believe what you just posted.
BTW, the wood died after being harvested & kiln dried before the cue maker got to build the shaft.

Wood was a living thing in its prior existence. Yes, it is less durable than carbon but offers superior
feel and likely a bit more defection but not a lot lot. It sounds & feels better than any CF shaft made.
In case you hadn’t noticed, the feel of the hit is pretty important for most pool players but not everyone.

It comes down to playing what you like the best. I’m simply stating KW shafts play better than maple &
offer less defection which seems to be what CF offers but at the cost of sacrificing the feel & acoustics.

CF provides feedback and "feel" just fine; it just does it differently than wood, not better or worse, just different.
And there is no way that anyone can form a solid opinion without trying CF for a decent amount of time to be able to adjust and get used to it. And a few hits or a few sessions or even a few weeks is not enough in most cases. If pros say it takes them about 6 months to get used to a new cue/shaft, then why on earth do you think that an amateur can do it in less time to form a real solid opinion?

If you have a wood shaft and you are happy with it, it's great! There's really no need to get a CF shaft or any other shaft.
But if you are in the market for a new cue or shaft (to play with, not to collect), then I would seriously consider giving CF a proper chance.

 

[maha]

defection has never been a big issue for good players that understand it.

only for those that dont and cant fathom why they keep missing certain kind of shots.

 

[billiards_watch]

There's a hump you have to get over that make someone a good player. Does getting over this hump make any of us world class players? No.

What it does is get us to where we're considered good players at the game. I have gotten over that hump 20 years ago. You either got it or you don't. I've been playing since I was 16 so I was practically raised on the game and reached a level that many won't reach. I had time to do so.

Carbon shafts won't improve my game anymore. A carbon shaft would have to turn me into a professional player. Carbon is good and I've said it many times. It's good for beginners and good for getting people over that hump. It eliminates deflection and unwanted throw trouble aiming.

If you can run racks then you don't need it. If you can't run racks then get it. I've seen it improve people's game but they were already decent shooters and the shafts helped them get over this hump.

Some of us shoot our guns with iron sights and some of us shoot our guns with a fancy infrared scope, zoom with laser. LOL

The carbon crowd is also the crowd that would play with a measle ball and I consider it a training ball. You know its a problem when they start a waiting list for cue balls. When customers are leaving they will swap the ball with the guy on the list. LOL

 

[Bavafongoul]

My son-in-law just ordered the new S&W DS Prodigy Compact 9mm 3.5” and I told him I’d trade him my Para P12 and my model 39 S&W any time. 2 fer 1 is always a sweet deal if you like what you get in return. The problem is the mag capacity limit, despite being initially judged unconstitutional in CA, the state’s appeal was upheld. So the 10 rd. limit appears permanent. I thought the Ronin EMP 3” was enticing but the DS Prodigy looks like it came right from S& W’s custom gun shop. The trigger pull is rated extraordinary. I still rely on factory iron sights & don’t want any optics but a light attachment is always OK.

Some people wouldn’t even consider a new gun unless it built to have optical sights. It doesn’t mean they’d be more accurate if they were in a gun fight because there’s more involved if that ever happened than the optics on your gun.

And a shaft, KW or CF. won’t turn you into a winner if you haven’t mastered the fundamentals and practiced playing with a LD shaft unless you’re a newbie & haven’t learned about aiming and deflection. For my money, KW shafts are just wonderful.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Think Wood has never been out of Vogue with most Pool Players,. The HYPE & BS over Predator, O/B, CF and the other latest and great SUPER SHAFTS is just one of those sale programs to separate you from your money.

Dr. Dave did a U-Tube on Shafts, Defection, and differences. Differences are bottom line minimal.

So ask your self axquestion, is some pro who is using say a Brad X CF does so because of endorsement money, or he or she purchased and love?

 

[Paul_#_]

Dr. Dave did a U-Tube on Shafts, Defection, and differences. Differences are bottom line minimal.

As I recall, Dr Dave uses a Revo.

 

[Moe Szyslak]

So ask your self axquestion, is some pro who is using say a maple shaft does so because of endorsement money, or he or she purchased and love?

The carbon crowd is also the crowd that would play with a measle ball and I consider it a training ball

Is there any innovation in pool in the last 50 years you don't consider an abomination to god?

As I recall, Dr Dave uses a Revo.

Obviously a paid shill for Big Carbon Fiber.