List of pro players who stick to wood as their playing shaft

I used Leica cameras as an example for traditional custom cues and modern cues.

But we can use photography as an example for CF vs. wood. It's like film vs. digital.

At the beginning, nobody believed that digital would replace film... in fact, Kodak invented the digital camera but neglected the idea as no one would use it.

Pro photographers kept using film years after digital cameras were available because the sensor was not good enough for pro use.

When digital cameras reached the stage that they were good enough, film started to decline rapidly. Many filmmakers stopped making film over the years, and all camera companies stopped making film cameras (only Leica and Nikon kept producing 1 model of film cameras, and eventually Nikon stopped as well).

For years, film photography has been a tiny niche for crazy die-hard fans only.

Today there is a rise in the popularity of film, but there are still very few film types left on the market, and people still need to look for old used cameras, and no one is making new cameras (yes, I know there are a few new ones, but nothing that is aimed at the serious or pro photographers).

The same will happen to pool cues/shafts—slowly all production cues will change to composite only as there will be less demand for wood, and there will be no sense in keeping the manufacturing facility for wood. This will leave only the custom cue makers to offer wood, and slowly they will decline as well, leaving just a few, if any, and their products will be very expensive and very hard to get by.
 
skor said:
I used Leica cameras as an example for traditional custom cues and modern cues.

But we can use photography as an example for CF vs. wood. It's like film vs. digital.

At the beginning, nobody believed that digital would replace film... in fact, Kodak invented the digital camera but neglected the idea as no one would use it.

Pro photographers kept using film years after digital cameras were available because the sensor was not good enough for pro use.

When digital cameras reached the stage that they were good enough, film started to decline rapidly. Many filmmakers stopped making film over the years, and all camera companies stopped making film cameras (only Leica and Nikon kept producing 1 model of film cameras, and eventually Nikon stopped as well).

For years, film photography has been a tiny niche for crazy die-hard fans only.

Today there is a rise in the popularity of film, but there are still very few film types left on the market, and people still need to look for old used cameras, and no one is making new cameras (yes, I know there are a few new ones, but nothing that is aimed at the serious or pro photographers).

The same will happen to pool cues/shafts—slowly all production cues will change to composite only as there will be less demand for wood, and there will be no sense in keeping the manufacturing facility for wood. This will leave only the custom cue makers to offer wood, and slowly they will decline as well, leaving just a few, if any, and their products will be very expensive and very hard to get by.
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cf shafts are not better performance wise. i guess if you use leica vs digital photography as an example of ease of use in regards to maintenance, that's fair. cf shafts are much preferable when it comes to maintenance and avoidance of dings etc.
 
skogstokig said:
cf shafts are not better performance wise. i guess if you use leica vs digital photography as an example of ease of use in regards to maintenance, that's fair. cf shafts are much preferable when it comes to maintenance and avoidance of dings etc.
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CF shafts have lower deflection performance than any wooden shaft. They also produce about 15%-20% more power. That's better performance.
If they stay straight longer then this also a performance characteristic as durabilty and maintenance contribute to performance.

I used Digital Leica compared to other brands in reference to custom cues compared to production cues in terms of status symbol. And used film vs. digital in reference to CF vs. wood.
 
skor said:
CF shafts have lower deflection performance than any wooden shaft. They also produce about 15%-20% more power. That's better performance.
If they stay straight longer then this also a performance characteristic as durabilty and maintenance contribute to performance.

I used Digital Leica compared to other brands in reference to custom cues compared to production cues in terms of status symbol. And used film vs. digital in reference to CF vs. wood.
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do you include Z3 (and previous gen) in wooden shafts? mezz wx900? because a standard revo does not have lower deflection than Z3. i think dr dave covered this, and possibly others too.

power transfer, well maybe. but in the end a good stroke is what produces power. for good players this is not an issue.
 
skogstokig said:
do you include Z3 (and previous gen) in wooden shafts? mezz wx900? because a standard revo does not have lower deflection than Z3. i think dr dave covered this, and possibly others too.

power transfer, well maybe. but in the end a good stroke is what produces power. for good players this is not an issue.
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What is a standard Revo? There are 3 diameters. What about other brands? Did Dr. Dave test all of them?

I haven't tested all the shafts out there, but carbon is lighter than wood, so at the same diameter, a lower front-end mass can be achieved with CF, and you get a lower deflection shaft.

When comparing specs, all conditions should be equal; you can't compare shaft A in the hand of a pro player to shaft B in the hand of a beginner.
More power is more power; it is a spec that a player with a great stroke can also enjoy and use for his game. Like getting the same result with less effort will allow you to play more consistently for a longer period of time.

But for the sake of argument, let's say that CF and wood are equal in terms of performance.
There is still durability and maintenance that the CF is better at, and there is good reason to choose it over wood.
So using CF shafts as an industry standard:
1. Less cutting down trees
2. Durability—you buy one shaft that will last longer (it is cheaper in the long run).
3. Cue makers can produce shafts faster, don't need to stock wood and cure it for a long period of time, and don't scrap and lose money and time on shafts that warped at the end of the production process. Save money on wood storage space and production equipment.
Basically, it gives no future to wood...
Some cue makers and customers are nostalgic about wood, and they'll keep it alive, but they'll fade out as well with time.
If we go back to cameras—they used to be made out of wood, then metal, and then plastic... we can't stop progress and changes.
 
skor said:
Today there is a rise in the popularity of film, but there are still very few film types left on the market, and people still need to look for old used cameras, and no one is making new cameras (yes, I know there are a few new ones, but nothing that is aimed at the serious or pro photographers).
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Leica does! I've been lusting after a Leica MP for years (decades actually), that's about as serious and pro as a film rangefinder can get. You're not gonna be shooting sports or fashion on one probably but great street and journalism camera for someone who desires sticking with film.

But I get your point and I agree with you overall.
 
skor said:
What is a standard Revo? There are 3 diameters. What about other brands? Did Dr. Dave test all of them?

I haven't tested all the shafts out there, but carbon is lighter than wood, so at the same diameter, a lower front-end mass can be achieved with CF, and you get a lower deflection shaft.

When comparing specs, all conditions should be equal; you can't compare shaft A in the hand of a pro player to shaft B in the hand of a beginner.
More power is more power; it is a spec that a player with a great stroke can also enjoy and use for his game. Like getting the same result with less effort will allow you to play more consistently for a longer period of time.

But for the sake of argument, let's say that CF and wood are equal in terms of performance.
There is still durability and maintenance that the CF is better at, and there is good reason to choose it over wood.
So using CF shafts as an industry standard:
1. Less cutting down trees
2. Durability—you buy one shaft that will last longer (it is cheaper in the long run).
3. Cue makers can produce shafts faster, don't need to stock wood and cure it for a long period of time, and don't scrap and lose money and time on shafts that warped at the end of the production process. Save money on wood storage space and production equipment.
Basically, it gives no future to wood...
Some cue makers and customers are nostalgic about wood, and they'll keep it alive, but they'll fade out as well with time.
If we go back to cameras—they used to be made out of wood, then metal, and then plastic... we can't stop progress and changes.
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12.4 revo.. the one that existed at the time. z3 beat it and 314-3 wasn't far behind despite IT having bigger diameter.

there is nothing wrong with "cutting down trees". jfc..
 
skogstokig said:
12.4 revo.. the one that existed at the time. z3 beat it and 314-3 wasn't far behind despite IT having bigger diameter.

there is nothing wrong with "cutting down trees". jfc..
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Fwiw, I play with Z3 and Ob pro+ shafts and I haven't played with anything lower deflection. I tried a 12.2 Ignite that deflected way more.

I think at this point, it's pretty clear that CF has plenty of benefits vs wood and vice versa, but lower deflection is definitely not one of them.

Again, 46% of the top pros are using wood still. I think the difference is pretty negligible.
 
fjk said:
I don't believe that will ever be the case.

For example, I have a smart watch that besides keeping PERFECT time, it also monitors my biometrics, sleep cycles, checks my emails, make phone calls, has GPS, and can stream music to my earbuds. All for about $400 bucks. By your logic, nobody in their right mind would ever purchase a high-end (REALLY expensive) wristwatch that only tells time and imperfectly at that. I can remember back in the 90s, everyone was predicting the old fashion analog watches will all be going out of business. But, those same old-fashion, imperfect luxury watch companies are not only still around, they are thriving and do better than ever. A buddy of mine just paid 5K over new retail for a used Rolex because it was available. Rolex apparently has a long, long wait list

In my opinion, there will always be a market for custom crafted high-end pool cues; despite the probability that cheap production cues will overtake them in playability.

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Rolex movements are built like tanks and will keep going and appreciating long after its owner passes away. I personally prefer Swiss or German automatics with other complications / features like chronograph, power reserve meter, GMT hand, etc. I just wish these things didn't cost so much!

As for the cue, I'm quite happy with rock maple shafts but will eventually give CF a shot.
 
lord_shar said:
Rolex movements are built like tanks and will keep going and appreciating long after its owner passes away. I personally prefer Swiss or German automatics with other complications / features like chronograph, power reserve meter, GMT hand, etc. I just wish these things didn't cost so much!

As for the cue, I'm quite happy with rock maple shafts but will eventually give CF a shot.
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Call me a dinosaur, but I equate old-skool cues and shafts to classic muscle cars. Those cars don't handle as well, aren't as fast, aren't as efficient, aren't as safe, and aren't as reliable. But, I still love them and will be paying a premium over the technologically superior Tesla. My money bets there will always be people like me that feel the same. It's a big world with lots of buyers for custom collectibles that few others own. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. :)
 
fjk said:
Call me a dinosaur, but I equate old-skool cues and shafts to classic muscle cars. Those cars don't handle as well, aren't as fast, aren't as efficient, aren't as safe, and aren't as reliable. But, I still love them and will be paying a premium over the technologically superior Tesla. My money bets there will always be people like me that feel the same. It's a big world with lots of buyers for custom collectibles that few others own. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. :)
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Old school pool cues, like high end automatic watches, can get uber fancy but requires artisans to work on them when maintenance is required. I love both as well and will need serious time trying to make any switch to CF.

My coworkers used to make fun of my Breitling and Omega watches while sporting GSHOCKS. Fast forward a few months, and I find them shopping for Rolex, IWC's, and even Panerai. Go figure... :D
 
skor said:
Add Ameer Ali
A controversial unknown due to high FargoRate but looks like in a few days everyone will know his name
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I think those who managed to keep an eye on last year's World Pool Championship have remembered his name pretty clearly. Just ask Gorst ;)
 
skor said:
wood is fun, caring for it - not so much
As you do not lose anything with CF, but rather gain - lower deflection, more power, better durability and care free. And feel is something that you get used to, wood is really obsolete, just a matter of time before people would forget that cues and shafts used to be made of wood.
Maybe CF will not be the future, but definitely some sort of a composite material.
If you wish to use wood shaft, go ahead, why not? as long as you can get them, enjoy them.
I have many wooden shafts for my cues, I use them as well, but if I ever needed a new shaft, it probably won't be wood (and yes, I do have a hybrid shaft of Kielwood and carbon coming, but I don't need it, I just wanted it :geek: )
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The only thing I would change is more power, I do think CF transfers power more efficiently but I don't think CF ADDS any power, if you do not stroke proficientily I don't believe CF will help you, if your stroke is good I think you will see the benefit of the better transfer of power.
 
mikemosconi said:
Well- the few great wood cues that I have left- my sons will treasure them upon my demise someday- that is all I care about at this point - in the meantime, I will use them, enjoy them, and be always thankful that I could own them.
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Becue is already doing that, they were the 1st to build a complete CF cue, what made me try them is they are pool players who wanted to bring to pool what CF did to golf, just like any other custom cue builder, I believe their products are getting better through R&D, I am not anti wood cues, if you play your best pool with them you should use them, if you have never tried a CF cue, especially Becue, how do you know?
 
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