Parallel vs BHE vs tuck and roll vs "intuitive" English vs whatever else you use.

Patrick Johnson said:
Maybe because there's no consensus about what it really is. As Dave points out, it's usually just adjusting aim for squirt/throw by feel - the stick isn't really parallel with anything.

pj
chgo
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Does your cue look like picture 1 or 3 when you're applying English?
RDT_20250916_1217469124305437691154048.png
 
CeaseLess said:
View attachment 851463
Just to make sure we're all on the same page, does your cue look like the first or third picture when spinning a shot?
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Aren't they the same thing, just the entire 3rd picture is rotated a few degrees counter-clockwise?

There is only one stick "line" that will make any given shot (I'm counting position as part of the shot). It doesn't matter if a banger is holding the stick or Efren. It doesn't matter how the stick gets there, whether you line it up that way from the start, or your stick goes through a hola hoop path on the final stroke.

Like Busty's stroke, it's all over the place. But when it hits the cb, its pointing the same way as if a more conventional player like Ghorst was holding the stick.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Aren't they the same thing, just the entire 3rd picture is rotated a few degrees counter-clockwise?

There is only one stick "line" that will make any given shot (I'm counting position as part of the shot). It doesn't matter if a banger is holding the stick or Efren. It doesn't matter how the stick gets there, whether you line it up that way from the start, or your stick goes through a hola hoop path on the final stroke.

Like Busty's stroke, it's all over the place. But when it hits the cb, its pointing the same way as if a more conventional player like Ghorst was holding the stick.
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I'm trying to find a better representation of the two side by side, I'll have to do it myself. But this is the difference in the two methods we're discussing.
Screenshot_20250916_165805_Chrome.jpg
 
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CeaseLess said:
I'm trying to find a better representation of the two side by side, I'll have to do it myself. But this is the difference in the two methods we're discussing. View attachment 851464
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It’s not true though. It can’t be due to the physics. The only case is where Pat mentioned the squirt and swerve cancel exactly. The cb never leaves in the same direction as the stick is pointing. It always leaves at an angle. The whole parallel word is flat wrong.

It may look that way in your eye/brain when lining up, but it not.
 
Serious question. Suppose the object ball line is fixed to one ball width. How much flex and finity can you get on any cue ball destination and actual landing? For instance the classic low left :D(rail side) stroke shot...
 
iusedtoberich said:
It’s not true though. It can’t be due to the physics. The only case is where Pat mentioned the squirt and swerve cancel exactly. The cb never leaves in the same direction as the stick is pointing. It always leaves at an angle. The whole parallel word is flat wrong.

It may look that way in your eye/brain when lining up, but it not.
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It's only wrong in the sense that it's not perfectly parallel, it's parallel with a slight adjustment for deflection. But as your way has the cue angled, crossing over the original no-spin aiming line mine is "parallel-ish" to it but completely over to one side of it.
 
CeaseLess said:
It's only wrong in the sense that it's not perfectly parallel, it's parallel with a slight adjustment for deflection. But as your way has the cue angled, crossing over the original no-spin aiming line mine is "parallel-ish" to it but completely over to one side of it.
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I promise you... If there was a high speed camera from overhead, of you, and me, and Efren shooting the same exact shot, the stick would look exactly the same at the moment it strikes the CB.
 
iusedtoberich said:
ps, I play the same way (but its not "parallel" english). I get down on the shot with my stick already adjusted for xyz. All my warmup strokes are with the stick pointing in the direction needed to make the shot with position, and pointing to the spot on the CB the tip needs to hit. Zero adjustments once down on the shot, and zero adjustments on the final stroke. Those are all subconscious while standing up.

I think the vast majority of good players do the same thing.

*edit to add, that is my intention. I know sometimes my arm moves crooked and sometimes it helps the shot, sometimes it hurts it, ha ha.
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Yes. 100%.
 
Forget parallel english, forget BHE, FHE & most definitely forget any kind of swooping motion.

First learn where center ball tangent takes you.

Then learn where each tip position up, down & all around on the cueball makes whitey go. Setup to that position & cue straight through.

For the most part do not travel past 3/8 of an inch from center in any direction.

Learn speed control. Learn that spin is speed.

Do not use force.

Now you're playing pool.
 
Fore Rail said:
Forget parallel english, forget BHE, FHE & most definitely forget any kind of swooping motion.

First learn where center ball tangent takes you.

Then learn where each tip position up, down & all around on the cueball makes whitey go. Setup to that position & cue straight through.

For the most part do not travel past 3/8 of an inch from center in any direction.

Learn speed control. Learn that spin is speed.

Do not use force.

Now you're playing pool.
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When i went to Derby in '07 i made it a point to watch how these cats spun whitey. Virtually all of them went thru the cb at an angle when applying spin. And they rarely use center-ball. They're spinnin it almost every shot. It was an eye opener to say the least. Just curious but just what does 'spin is speed' even mean??
 
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