Low deflection stroke

[VarmintKong]

Sup y’all?

I was watching the junior final at the International Open the other night while I was going to sleep. In between long blinks, I heard Jeremy Jones say:

“You always hear people talk about low deflection shafts, but you never hear people talk about a low deflection stroke.”

It’s really been nagging at me for the last couple days. I’ve been trying to boil it down to a statement that I can relate to. Something like, “a strong player uses just enough spin and speed to get position.” I don’t think I’m seeing the big picture though.

So what factors contribute to a low deflection stroke?

Here’s where I’m at. Feel free to rip me apart; I don’t know spit:

-when using side spin try to minimize squirt. A softer stroke can get you where you need to go without throwing you offline as much. The harder the stroke the more compensation is needed from the intended contact point.
-given a choice roll over stun where cut induced throw needs minimized
-tip placement and quality stroke over trying to cram a ball in to a tight pocket. i.e. drag on a ball tight to the long rail at distance

I feel like all of this just boils down to “just cinch the shot and live to see the next ball,” which I’m sure is not what was intended.

I just don’t know what I don’t know. I’d like to know. Throw me a bone brothas and sistas.

 

[Fatboy]

Honestly,

Think less, play more. Less words.

You’ll be just fine

Best
Fatboy

 

[BlueRaider]

I could see that referring to players who use max spin and less speed. Swerve kicks in sooner at slower speeds which makes the deflection from max spin less noticeable, especially on longer shots where the swerve has time to really take effect.

 

[straightline]

Simple way of looking at it is take the extremes. Start with Wiley's TOI. If you line up a shot with that method and ram it instead of cinching it, you have applied a high deflection stroke. The TOI stroke becomes the low deflection alternative.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I could see that referring to players who use max spin and less speed. Swerve kicks in sooner at slower speeds which makes the deflection from max spin less noticeable, especially on longer shots where the swerve has time to really take effect.

But deflection alone is easier to judge than deflection plus swerve.

pj
chgo

 

[VarmintKong]

But deflection alone is easier to judge than deflection plus swerve.

pj
chgo

Maybe a visual? I know you’re good for it.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Maybe a visual? I know you’re good for it.

I don't think a visual is needed to understand that it's easier to aim a ball that goes straight than one that curves, especially when the curve changes from shot to shot.

pj
chgo

 

[SmoothStroke]

I don't care what shaft you use, you could play with tree bark.
The sooner you learn short, mid, and long stroke the better a player you will become.
Once you have the technique down you can control any shaft.
It takes longer to adjust to the weight and balance, maybe a whole 20 minutes.
I am seeing more and more people are starting to catch on to short stroking,
I've been writing about it for 15- 20 years.

 

[VarmintKong]

I don't think a visual is needed to understand that it's easier to aim a ball that goes straight than one that curves, especially when the curve changes from shot to shot.

pj
chgo

Kewl

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Kewl

…not to mention that I don’t know how to diagram that.

pj
chgo

 

[VarmintKong]

I thought you were the master of the chalky strokes diagram app.

 

[MattPoland]

I just assume every now and then JJ might be thinking something very meaningful and use the less technically apt term when saying it.

He could have said a “low deflection stroke” but been thinking about a stroke that minimizes “cut induced throw” but said “low deflection”. Or something like that.

 

[straightline]

Tixess...

 

[WobblyStroke]

Back in the 80s and 90s before low deflection shafts, a lot of players applied spin by swiping across the cue ball. This seems to produce less deflection but in reality it deflects same amount relative to the cue but cue is no longer on aim line. So the effect is lower deflection relative where you aimed up. He could be hinting at that but that technique has largely fallen out of favor.

I think it is more likely he was talking about hitting a shot in a way that makes it play more consistently and didn't phrase it correctly. Earl does a good job of highlighting how to hit certain shots 'the right way' in his commentary, often explaining that the ball can 'do weird things' if you hit it one way vs the other, whether talking about rolls vs stuns, or putting english on cuts that don't need spin for shape but rather to reduce cut-induced throw.

Earl is from the old school of thought along with Seigel who even said in his instructional vid that pros rarely try to hit middle cue ball bc a tiny bit of reverse english can really mess with position so to avoid having to be so precise all the time, they just play a tiny bit (1/8-1/4 tip) on most shots so even if they miss the mark by a little bit they won't have reverse on it. Im pretty sure this is why Earl predicts side spin on almost every shot like he plays it while most guys now play center ball a lot more often. Similar to this, pro golfers never try to hit str8 shots (save for moe norman), and always play either a tight straightish fade or tight straightish draw for their 'str8 shots' as this approach controls their miss better.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

Honestly,

Think less, play more. Less words.

You’ll be just fine

Best
Fatboy

THIS

 

[Texas Carom Club]

I don't care what shaft you use, you could play with tree bark.
The sooner you learn short, mid, and long stroke the better a player you will become.
Once you have the technique down you can control any shaft.
It takes longer to adjust to the weight and balance, maybe a whole 20 minutes.
I am seeing more and more people are starting to catch on to short stroking,
I've been writing about it for 15- 20 years.

Yes i like the short stroke, just seems like less movement less can go wrong
i see a strong 600 plus doing it often. and when i remember to implement it i can make much harder shots, like a long break shot on a 14.1 rack with confidence

the trick for me is REMEMBERING to do a short stroke lol

 

[MajorMiscue]

Backhand english.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Earl is from the old school of thought along with Seigel who even said in his instructional vid that pros rarely try to hit middle cue ball bc a tiny bit of reverse english can really mess with position so to avoid having to be so precise all the time, they just play a tiny bit (1/8-1/4 tip) on most shots so even if they miss the mark by a little bit they won't have reverse on it.

This is also CJ's reasoning for his TOI system - problem is it's wrong. Hitting the CB left or right of your target point has the same negative effect no matter where you're trying to hit it - too little right spin is the same difference as a little left rather than none.

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

Back in the 80s and 90s before low deflection shafts, a lot of players applied spin by swiping across the cue ball. This seems to produce less deflection but in reality it deflects same amount relative to the cue but cue is no longer on aim line. So the effect is lower deflection relative where you aimed up. ...

One common name for that is "backhand english". It can be with either a swoop or a pivot before the final, straight stroke.

 

[WobblyStroke]

This is also CJ's reasoning for his TOI system - problem is it's wrong. Hitting the CB left or right of your target point has the same negative effect no matter where you're trying to hit it - too little right spin is the same difference as a little left rather than none.

pj
chgo

Nah man, missing 1/.4tip running english and hitting a flat ball will not have the same drastic effect as coming into a rail with a 1/4tip of reverse. Plus if you are playing a 1/4tip left, for a high level cueist you will pretty much never be on the wrong side and just play a touch less/more left. If aiming up center, you can end up with a little of run or reverse, def a lot worse.