An Obsession

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I do own and appreciate true good custom cues. This is a different thing.

A number of years ago I was researching Steve Mizerak which led to researching some of his business dealings and the "Dove" cue line he had. That led to researching Cobra cues and KaoKao. I had bought a few example cues cheap and had seen a Slyfoxx cue that had the exact same design as one of the Cobra cues. My wife saw me researching the Slyfoxx cue and bought it for me for my birthday. That started all this craziness that led me to own the cues I picture here today.

There is a lot more info on all this, I even spoke to relatives of Steve and others that were involved in several of these brands. Sadly, one of the people had recently thrown away many records, and even products, samples, and prototypes, not long before I contacted him because he thought nobody would ever be interested in them. I do have trademark records, business filings, and more. But that's all ethereal BS for most people. Even these cues themselves will be BS to a lot of people. But, here they are.

One thing led to another, and over the years I would grab a cue of the same design if I saw it for a reasonable price. Recently, as I was going though all my cues, I came across them. I wasn't sure how many there were at first as my cue records were fragmented from changing computers. Now I know there are seven.

They're all versions of a cue found in the KaoKao Business to Business catalog, number 4201 on page 18 of the 99 page catalog. It is the 525 Side Winder in the 1992 Cobra catalog. It is the Apache in the Sierra catalog and in the original Sterling catalog. How is it that so many brands chose this particular model to have made? I don't really know. Kao makes a tremendous variety of cues to choose from. What is obvious is that they are of dramatically varying quality. The Kao factory is certainly capable of building cues up to the Adam/Helmstetter quality level, which is pretty respectable. I have examples of the "Pro" cues from the Mizerak and Cobra lines that represent that level of quality. This cue was never available in the Mizerak line, and it wasn't in the "Pro" line from Cobra. If it was in the "Pro" line it would have been produced to the quality level of the cues on the right in my pictures.

kaokao 4201 - Crop.jpg


4 crop - Copy.JPG


In this particular lineup I arranged the cues in ascending level of quality from left to right. On the top two the fit and finish is pretty darn good and the rings all line up. There is one brand logo I suspect is missing but have never seen one. It was produced in the 1980s I think. There is a reason I suspect it. If I ever see one I will buy it because...obsession.

From left to right:
1) Cobra 525 Side Winder (synthetic wrap)
2) Cobra 525 Side Winder (synthetic wrap)
3) Slyfoxx (linen wrap)
4) Craftmaster (linen wrap)
5) Pinnacle (no logo, linen wrap)
6) GW Collection (genuine lizard wrap, added by original owner)
7) Sierra Apache (linen wrap, the only cue here with 5/16x14 pin, the others are all 18 pin)

20251005_111456.jpg

20251005_111524.jpg

20251005_111602.jpg

20251005_111214.jpg
 

Attachments

  • kaokao 4201 - Crop.jpg
    kaokao 4201 - Crop.jpg
    26.3 KB · Views: 14
Last edited:
Someone asked by DM how I know #5 is a Pinnacle since it has no logo. Pinnacle cues had a sticker by the way.

I know it is a Pinnacle because I bought it directly from the guy that owned Pinnacle cues brand.

I never asked him about the missing sticker. I didn't care at the time. I thought it looked cleaner without it anyway.
 
From all these 7 cues
Which do you regard as the highest quality?
The Sierra, #7, but it's debatable. #6 could be close for that, the GW.

It ended up being a little bit of a toss up. I don't give points for the lizard wrap because it's not original.

So, I gave the title to the Sierra for the 14 pin. It has linen, but honestly the linen on the Pinnacle is finished better.

These cues are all "spotty" for wood selection. That's just the nature of this end of cues. No real nice wood, just marginal figure, and barely matched where it should be.

The Cobra and Mizerak "pro" lines have true curly, BEM and even ebony in them. So, even the best of these isn't up to that level, but the MSRP reflect that. The fit and finish is up to the same standard though, similar to Adam/Helmstetter.

The Sierra Apache MSRP was like $450, while the top level Mizerak "pro" cue was like $700.

No, I didn't pay anything like that for any of these. I wouldn't.

EDIT: Some of what I consider in the quality issue are things you can't see, like what is under the bumpers.
 
I love this so much. More minutia, please. Can you share more about the MIZERAK/DOVE line?
I have in the past in various posts but it requires digging to find them. When I get the cues together for pictures I'll try to do a more definitive post with more details.

I'll do the same for the Cobra line.

But I probably will do those in the history forum with some historic records as well as pictures of example cues I have.

I'm planning to do one in the history forum for National/Gandy cues with pictures. I hope to complete the known early Gandy catalog first and do some pictures that reproduce the early catalog.

I've even tracked down the grave sites of some of the people involved in these efforts and have pictures of their headstones.

Eventually I will do these posts.
 
Last edited:
Very nice points on those cues. Can't tell if they're even, but they're nice and sharp.
The higher you go, left to right, the more even they are. One the left most cue not so much. The three on the right are pretty darn even. And as I said, the two on the right even have the rings in the butt sleeve lined up.

Maybe I will get some close ups of the veneers. Nicely done. No glue lines. No tear out.


It's interesting they are from the same factory but the points vary in length so much. So do the handles. So so the butt sleeves. They seem to have a catalog of a few different build dimensions for those parameters.

For example, the Slyfoxx and Sierra have a longer butt sleeve (matching each other), while the rest are shorter.

After looking at pictures of other examples, and measuring them, the brands are consistent among themselves for these dimensions, so it isn't an accident.
 
Back
Top