Question for instructors: psychology bachelor’s thesis on neurocognitive aspects of pool performance

[chrislill-rastern]

Hi everyone,

I would like to ask the instructors and coaches here for support and feedback.

My name is Christian Lill-Rastern. I am from Austria, a certified billiards instructor, an Austrian national referee, and a psychology student at the University of Innsbruck.

For my bachelor’s thesis, I am conducting a study on neurocognitive aspects of pool billiards performance. The study focuses on abilities such as spatial reasoning, mental rotation, movement anticipation, and intuitive physics, and how these may relate to performance in pool.

As an instructor and referee myself, I am especially interested in whether such cognitive abilities can help us better understand training, talent development, decision-making, and table reading in cue sports.

In the long term, the project may contribute to a scientifically grounded test and diagnostic tool for training, talent development, and individual performance support in pool billiards.

The online test takes approximately 15 to 20 minutes and should preferably be completed in one session. Please try to complete the test as fully as possible. Short breaks are possible, but very long interruptions may cause the session to expire or the test to be interrupted.

Study link:
https://j3.ideenweberei.com/billardtest-en (english version)
https://j3.ideenweberei.com/billardtest (german version)

I would be very grateful if instructors, coaches, referees, and serious players here would either participate themselves or share the link with players they work with.

Feedback from experienced instructors would also be very welcome.

Thank you very much!

Christian Lill-Rastern
Certified billiards instructor from Austria
Austrian national referee
Psychology student, University of Innsbruck

 

[bbb]

i hope you come back to post your results

 

[JeremiahGage]

Submitted! I hope you get a lot of data for this, as it sounds like an interesting study. Remember that correlation does not equal causation

 

[chrislill-rastern]

Submitted! I hope you get a lot of data for this, as it sounds like an interesting study. Remember that correlation does not equal causation

Therefore I do a variant analysis and factor anlysis.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Feedback from experienced instructors would also be very welcome. ..

This question will probably confuse most US respondents:

Do you also have, or do you only have, a licence from another country?​

​

There are no player licenses in the US.

It might be useful to have a "?" button or similar for each question to allow text comments and questions about the survey questions. I think that could help to make the survey better over time.

Also, very few US players consider themselves to be representing the US. The US has no national ranking system. It is only the last two years that we have had national championships.

In the last block rotation test, it's not clear that some of the choices are solid objects.

In the billiard 2-D rotation test with rotated/mirrored tables, I think there are some errors. Perhaps you meant "which image is not a simple rotation of the target".

In all of the questions with table-like diagrams, not all of the images fit on the screen at one time. Perhaps that is part of the test.

In the table diagrams, I think it would be better to have the correct number and placement of diamond markings on the side rails.

 

[David in FL]

This question will probably confuse most US respondents:

Do you also have, or do you only have, a licence from another country?​

​

There are no player licenses in the US.

It might be useful to have a "?" button or similar for each question to allow text comments and questions about the survey questions. I think that could help to make the survey better over time.

Also, very few US players consider themselves to be representing the US. The US has no national ranking system. It is only the last two years that we have had national championships.

In the last block rotation test, it's not clear that some of the choices are solid objects.

In the billiard 2-D rotation test with rotated/mirrored tables, I think there are some errors. Perhaps you meant "which image is not a simple rotation of the target".

In all of the questions with table-like diagrams, not all of the images fit on the screen at one time. Perhaps that is part of the test.

In the table diagrams, I think it would be better to have the correct number and placement of diamond markings on the side rails.

Yep, in a few of the rotational questions there were 2 that were correct and one that was not...

Also, as mentioned, some of the questions simply don't translate/equate well to the US...

 

[chrislill-rastern]

Yep, in a few of the rotational questions there were 2 that were correct and one that was not...

Also, as mentioned, some of the questions simply don't translate/equate well to the US...

Thanks for your feedback! I will look into it. Regarding your suggestions regarding questions unrelated to the US: True but unavoidable. Though you have something we (at least in Austria) don't have: Consistent use of FARGO as rating system! In order for us to come to some conclusion regarding skills, we need to ask about some basic parameters in order to predict such skill levels. I will recheck the questions regarding your critical comments again and let you know!

 

[chrislill-rastern]

This question will probably confuse most US respondents:

Do you also have, or do you only have, a licence from another country?​

​

There are no player licenses in the US.

It might be useful to have a "?" button or similar for each question to allow text comments and questions about the survey questions. I think that could help to make the survey better over time.

Also, very few US players consider themselves to be representing the US. The US has no national ranking system. It is only the last two years that we have had national championships.

In the last block rotation test, it's not clear that some of the choices are solid objects.

In the billiard 2-D rotation test with rotated/mirrored tables, I think there are some errors. Perhaps you meant "which image is not a simple rotation of the target".

In all of the questions with table-like diagrams, not all of the images fit on the screen at one time. Perhaps that is part of the test.

In the table diagrams, I think it would be better to have the correct number and placement of diamond markings on the side rails.

Regarding the 2D Test and specially the first item: There are differences between answer option A and B. As similar they are to the target: They are ever so slightly different. Regarding the diamonds: Even it should not have any effect to the results: I will correct the images. Regarding "fit to screen": Yes unfortunately gone are the times, were we all would sit on our computers with big screens . I have certain limitiations with Limesurvey which are rather hard to overcome. Will try to adapt to smaller resolutions.

 

[boogieman]

Hi everyone,

I would like to ask the instructors and coaches here for support and feedback.

My name is Christian Lill-Rastern. I am from Austria, a certified billiards instructor, an Austrian national referee, and a psychology student at the University of Innsbruck.

For my bachelor’s thesis, I am conducting a study on neurocognitive aspects of pool billiards performance. The study focuses on abilities such as spatial reasoning, mental rotation, movement anticipation, and intuitive physics, and how these may relate to performance in pool.

As an instructor and referee myself, I am especially interested in whether such cognitive abilities can help us better understand training, talent development, decision-making, and table reading in cue sports.

In the long term, the project may contribute to a scientifically grounded test and diagnostic tool for training, talent development, and individual performance support in pool billiards.

The online test takes approximately 15 to 20 minutes and should preferably be completed in one session. Please try to complete the test as fully as possible. Short breaks are possible, but very long interruptions may cause the session to expire or the test to be interrupted.

Study link:
https://j3.ideenweberei.com/billardtest-en (english version)
https://j3.ideenweberei.com/billardtest (german version)

I would be very grateful if instructors, coaches, referees, and serious players here would either participate themselves or share the link with players they work with.

Feedback from experienced instructors would also be very welcome.

Thank you very much!

Christian Lill-Rastern
Certified billiards instructor from Austria
Austrian national referee
Psychology student, University of Innsbruck

The table views with rotation are just annoying. I skipped all after the first one. Something to consider is that I don't really care about this study as much as you do, and I'm not going to waste time with it, especially if I have to scroll around on a full sized computer screen. Not worth my time. I only finished and didn't close the window at that point because of lost time fallacy.

 

[dquarasr]

The table views with rotation are just annoying. I skipped all after the first one. Something to consider is that I don't really care about this study as much as you do, and I'm not going to waste time with it, especially if I have to scroll around on a full sized computer screen. Not worth my time. I only finished and didn't close the window at that point because of lost time fallacy.

I have to admit same. I answered only a handful then exited out.

 

[chrislill-rastern]

The table views with rotation are just annoying. I skipped all after the first one. Something to consider is that I don't really care about this study as much as you do, and I'm not going to waste time with it, especially if I have to scroll around on a full sized computer screen. Not worth my time. I only finished and didn't close the window at that point because of lost time fallacy

I have to admit same. I answered only a handful then exited out.

Well I need to create the test within the limitations you have with such tools. Else I would need to use paper&pencil which would be totally out of scope. I also notice that most of the drop outs are before the 2d rotation test or after. You are welcome to use your tablet or computer instead of your phone. Remember that this Test is a first step and a evaluation of what the core mentap factors for our Game are. For sure I will redo a lot and hopefully thanks to all your feedback, we then have a valuable tool in future.

 

[boogieman]

Well I need to create the test within the limitations you have with such tools. Else I would need to use paper&pencil which would be totally out of scope. I also notice that most of the drop outs are before the 2d rotation test or after. You are welcome to use your tablet or computer instead of your phone. Remember that this Test is a first step and a evaluation of what the core mentap factors for our Game are. For sure I will redo a lot and hopefully thanks to all your feedback, we then have a valuable tool in future.

I think the issue is with the diagrams themselves. If I buy a "brain teaser" book or something I'll play the mental gymnastics to rotate images in my mind. If I'm filling out a survey to do with pool not so much. I use 3D models daily in my work. Playing with vectors and rotating things on a computer screen. It's not that I can't do it, it's that the format in which it is presented. I really think the images need some work for clarity and ease of use.

If I were in a paid study or in a college course where my grade depended on it, I could see putting forth the extra effort to decode it but for a random survey that I'm not that invested in it just doesn't seem worth it.

You will get some pool players who like puzzles and brain teasers but I'd wager most players don't care to invest the effort. At a certain point most of this stuff is offloaded to subconscious pattern recognition so presenting an entirely different format might be problematic in and of itself.

Say you have a race car driver who is top notch. They might know more than an average person about mechanics but they still hire a mechanic. The mechanic knows more and by offloading that work to the mechanic, a driver can actually focus on driving. You can have a driver who is top tier who doesn't know how a carburetor works, so skill level isn't necessarily related to knowledge. I feel that knowing things about pool/billiards can be important but at the same time even the smartest and most knowledgeable pool player can often be beaten by some guy that just hits the balls good and knows how they react, even if their knowledge is scientifically inaccurate.

To say it another way: Many "older" pool players take the game quite seriously but after age 25 or so most don't care to engage in convoluted college type questions on a test. Once you're out of college age, playing mental gymnastics on a test or survey really loses it's appeal. You gotta streamline and simplify it if you want retention for most pool players over age 30.

 

[chrislill-rastern]

I think the issue is with the diagrams themselves. If I buy a "brain teaser" book or something I'll play the mental gymnastics to rotate images in my mind. If I'm filling out a survey to do with pool not so much. I use 3D models daily in my work. Playing with vectors and rotating things on a computer screen. It's not that I can't do it, it's that the format in which it is presented. I really think the images need some work for clarity and ease of use.

If I were in a paid study or in a college course where my grade depended on it, I could see putting forth the extra effort to decode it but for a random survey that I'm not that invested in it just doesn't seem worth it.

You will get some pool players who like puzzles and brain teasers but I'd wager most players don't care to invest the effort. At a certain point most of this stuff is offloaded to subconscious pattern recognition so presenting an entirely different format might be problematic in and of itself.

Say you have a race car driver who is top notch. They might know more than an average person about mechanics but they still hire a mechanic. The mechanic knows more and by offloading that work to the mechanic, a driver can actually focus on driving. You can have a driver who is top tier who doesn't know how a carburetor works, so skill level isn't necessarily related to knowledge. I feel that knowing things about pool/billiards can be important but at the same time even the smartest and most knowledgeable pool player can often be beaten by some guy that just hits the balls good and knows how they react, even if their knowledge is scientifically inaccurate.

To say it another way: Many "older" pool players take the game quite seriously but after age 25 or so most don't care to engage in convoluted college type questions on a test. Once you're out of college age, playing mental gymnastics on a test or survey really loses it's appeal. You gotta streamline and simplify it if you want retention for most pool players over age 30.


View attachment 905382

The reason to have this items in the test is, that I have the hypothesis that they predict talented players. As this elements are traits, they can not be learned. You can only get better in it within your limitations. This has huge consequences for the training (well at least that's what I think) in so far, as when for instance you have issues with your positional game in certain situations were - let's say, you have to mirror the Table or go around the table to imagine the outcome of your shot, you should consider to compensate your weakness and go around the table, when you struggle in mental mirroring. Hope this clarifies a bit, what a future test can do specially for talent scouting and in Training.