Why don't more bars lease Diamond pool tables?

[JasonATX]

They must be a big enough draw or else zero bar owners would bother to get Diamond tables when they could just get a used Great American for 1/5 of the price.

For some bars, sure. Especially if there isn't a pool hall nearby. There are a few bars around the Austin area that have several bar boxes and hold tournaments and such. Table quality varies but none have Diamonds as far as I am aware.

Hell, I won a chip tournament at an American Legion a couple months ago.

 

[sbrownn]

This thread is TDLR; as far as I can tell, so I will try to summarize:

1. There is no Diamond lease / share profits program that I could find. They do have a financing program listed here:
   
   

   No Excuse Financing

   Diamond Billiard Products

   diamondbilliards.com
2. Many local operators / vendors (not manufacturers) seem to offer either revenue sharing or lease / rental programs for both Valley and possibly Diamond tables. For example, this site:
   
   

   Valley Coin-Operated Pool Tables for Rent | Player Two

   Transform your space with Player Two's customizable Valley coin-operated pool tables. Perfect for bars and pool halls. Start the fun and boost your revenue today!

   www.playertwo.com
3. I have played on some very nice Valley tables in my 50+ years of playing pool if they are maintained and setup correctly with quality rails plus high grade felt and if the foundations of the tables are sound (rail bolts tighten correctly, slate and its bed are not damaged or warped, pockets are in excellent condition, etc.). Yes, they are not Diamonds, but not every bar wants or needs Diamond tables.
4. On ball sets: Yes, the default Aramith Premier line with the modified stripe balls and the green Valley cougar cue ball (mud ball) can get quite tired over multiple years of use. My recommendation is to get a personal set of Dynasphere Bronze / Vanadium balls for players that care about the hit of a quality set of balls and usually have a quality cue stick or two (one for breaking) that they travel with to one or more bars. But there are some considerations to make when bringing your own balls with your other usual hardware:
   1. The bar table's ball return might not be open and your cue ball does not come down the ball return if a scratch is made. Solutions are:
      1. Use the green Valley cougar cue ball (ugh).
      2. Upgrade to the purple Valley cougar cue ball (a little better one that is labeled as tournament quality and will work with the ball return). Here is a link:
         
         

         Tournament Purple Logo Aramith Magnetic Cue Ball

         This cue ball is made for coin op tables that return the ball at the break end. It does not have the magnet in the middle of the ball however.

         seyberts.com
   2. Look for bars that offer free pool with ball returns open to use your own set or ask the owners if you can rent the table with the ball return opened so you can use your own set. They even might let you keep your ball set behind the bar so you do not have to travel with it (this is what I do and we use either a red circle cue ball or the included Dynaspheres cue ball).

And on a closing note, most bar owners don't really care about the condition of their bar tables. And if they do, they charge more for pool or drinks / food or both. It is about a $1000 on the west coast to do an 8 foot Valley table for quality rails and felt including proper labor and setup. That can be a big hit if an owner has multiple tables that get a good amount of play. Even a bigger hit to the owner if there are clueless players spilling drinks, trying jump or masse shots incorrectly or just sitting on the tables which all result in premature wear and damage.

One follow up to all of this. Be careful about purchasing / renting / leasing Global bar tables. I've been told by two different reliable installers that getting new rails for them involve taking the rail assemblies off and shipping back to (one of) the rail manufacturers to fit them as they are different than Valley tables. Have never done this so am no sure 100% this is factual, but the two separate installers seemed quite confident about it.

 

[JPB2]

One follow up to all of this. Be careful about purchasing / renting / leasing Global bar tables. I've been told by two different reliable installers that getting new rails for them involve taking the rail assemblies off and shipping back to (one of) the rail manufacturers to fit them as they are different than Valley tables. Have never done this so am no sure 100% this is factual, but the two separate installers seemed quite confident about it.

I wouldn’t know the details of working on them, but there are several places in my area that have Globals or the Brunswick Globals. Some is the maintenance some is the terrible balls on some, but I have never liked them. I’m not a room owner or bar owner, but if I opened a bar with tables it would be Diamond or Valley. Valley has parts and cushions available and they are durable. Prefer playing on Diamonds but as I have posted I don’t sneer at a well maintained Valley.

 

[sbrownn]

I wouldn’t know the details of working on them, but there are several places in my area that have Globals or the Brunswick Globals. Some is the maintenance some is the terrible balls on some, but I have never liked them. I’m not a room owner or bar owner, but if I opened a bar with tables it would be Diamond or Valley. Valley has parts and cushions available and they are durable. Prefer playing on Diamonds but as I have posted I don’t sneer at a well maintained Valley.

The Global replacement pockets are basically impossible to find also...

 

[JPB2]

The Global replacement pockets are basically impossible to find also...

That must be the reason we showed up for league at a place where they recovered the Globals and the side pockets looked all out of place. One had a part of the pocket liner, a big plastic flap sticking out in the middle of the pocket. My guess is that was partly mechanic screw up and part difficulty of getting the right part. Dunno, but it was bad. Unplayable essentially

 

[heater451]

When I lived in Evansville IN, it seemed like every single bar in the city had Diamond tables.

Here in Austin TX, it is all Valley tables, with Nasty old Mud Cue balls, in my experience.

Maybe it is just me, but I just can't enjoy playing pool at all, using a Mud cue ball, and I understand that they are varying degrees of bad, with them.

I randomly found this bar in Downtown Austin, which was a really nice and very classic looking bar, and they had a nice line of 5 Valley coin op tables. All with nasty old Mud cue balls on them.

I tried playing / hitting some balls on one of them, and it was just so horrible. I could not even finish, it was so un enjoyable.

I believe that Diamond offers a free lease on coin op tables, for half of the profit, from what I read somewhere a long time ago. Not sure if that is still the case though.

Don't you think that a lot more players would visit a bar if it offered Diamonds, or at least Valley's with a decent set of balls?

And, why is it that most Valley coin op tables usually have these nasty old mud balls, that look like they are maybe 30 years old?

The funny thing is, that the pool scene in Austin is very lively. People just love to play pool here. There are always people on all of the pool tables.

Back in Evansville, where it seemed like every bar had a Diamond, they were always empty, and I rarely ever seen anyone playing on them, other then at the real pool halls.

So, maybe the type of table would not even matter, in these bars. The banger's will enjoy playing on them no matter what.

I usually try to read through a whole thread before I post, but did this time, so forgive me if it's been mentioned.

I used to see Valley tables in bars which had a vendor sticker on them--as in like a vending machine company. So, my thought was that the tables were rented or leased from such a company, and Valley/Dynamo has simply provided tables for that industry, and it's those companies which then provided the tables to the bars.

No real evidence, just conjecture.

 

[JPB2]

I usually try to read through a whole thread before I post, but did this time, so forgive me if it's been mentioned.

I used to see Valley tables in bars which had a vendor sticker on them--as in like a vending machine company. So, my thought was that the tables were rented or leased from such a company, and Valley/Dynamo has simply provided tables for that industry, and it's those companies which then provided the tables to the bars.

No real evidence, just conjecture.

Yes, but….

Vending companies use different brands but they are the ones that generally put tables in bars along with jukeboxes, pinball, etc… they may use different brands- Global as I mentioned above. Diamond. And the traditional leader in that market, Valley. I don’t know the details of that business. Vending companies have Diamonds too, but it is a newer brand than the longer established Valley.

I mention it because I played VNEA for the first time and heard things like VNEA has to be played on Valleys. It doesn’t, but the tables have to be owned by the charter holder which is typically a vending company. Valleys do have features which make a lot of sense for a vending company though, and it is no surprise that company started VNEA.

 

[8intheside]

They must be a big enough draw or else zero bar owners would bother to get Diamond tables when they could just get a used Great American for 1/5 of the price.

I’ve seen bars with diamonds,and the majority of players I’ve seen play on them are “bangers” and low level apa players.

 

[Lowell]

I’ve seen bars with diamonds,and the majority of players I’ve seen play on them are “bangers” and low level apa players.

Very few pool establishments are going to attract majority 500 + Fargo players, but having a table that draws in a loyal crowd of pool players who spend money all the time counts for something.

 

[Sheldon]

I’ve seen bars with diamonds,and the majority of players I’ve seen play on them are “bangers” and low level apa players.

You're describing the pool community in general. Nicer tables will help elevate play eventually, but the vast majority of the population is not very good at pool.
30 per million reach 600. ~300 players in the US above 700, fewer than 20 world wide over 800.