Blown call and lack of sportsmanship

maha said:
yes once a ref is there it is on him and not you to make any call against yourself.

ive never seen a batter in baseball ask the ref to make his ball call, turned to a strike.
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I would agree that if a ref makes a call - that is it- the shooter cannot change that call one way or another so it is not up to the shooter to “ admit” anything - it would not change the outcome. The purpose of a ref is to take foul calling out of the hands of the players- either way IMO.
 
mikemosconi said:
I would agree that if a ref makes a call - that is it- the shooter cannot change that call one way or another so it is not up to the shooter to “ admit” anything - it would not change the outcome. The purpose of a ref is to take foul calling out of the hands of the players- either way IMO.
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Do you really think if the shooter here said “I hit the 7b” it would not change the outcome? You think the ref would have said “I called it good, no foul!”
 
maha said:
why would you admit to a ruling being wrong that the ref made in your favor. how would you know that your opponent would do it for you.

unless the rules say you must point out your own fouls then its not up to you to do it. your opponent or ref. has that job.
you never admit to a cop you were doing something illegal would you.

if gambling its just you and him so it is unwritten rule to point out fouls or moved balls to him.

but in a tournament its dog eats dog.
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I know that I have been pulled over at least a couple of times guilty of speeding and when the LEO asked if I knew why I was being stopped that I have admitted that I may have been going a little fast. I got warnings only in those instances. The LEO knows what you did wrong, you most likely know what you did wrong, playing dumb or lying about it almost guarantees a ticket.
 
but after you admit it you are now guilty and cannot win if you challenge it. say he tacks on something like finding a little pot or white powder in your car. which may now turn into a felony. you lost the great defense you have of him not having a valid reason to stop you.

and start his process of asking other questions that can lead to a search warrant or worse for you. most times nothing else happens you get a ticket or not.
and where do you stop answering questions that are tailored made to find something to convict you of a greater offense if they can find that.

if answering questions from a cop works for you thats fine.
 
mikemosconi said:
I would agree that if a ref makes a call - that is it- the shooter cannot change that call one way or another so it is not up to the shooter to “ admit” anything - it would not change the outcome. The purpose of a ref is to take foul calling out of the hands of the players- either way IMO.
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Either player is allowed by the rules to ask the referee to reconsider his call. In addition, if the call involves a rules interpretation, the player may ask for the TD to overrule the call.
 
of course as the opponent, you should make a big stink if the ref. makes a bad call that negatively affects you. that is in your best interest.

plus it may make more timid refs. less likely to make a real close call against you.
 
JPB2 said:
Actually, I don’t think it is clear the cue ball hit the 7. To me it looked like the cue hit the 7. It was an obvious foul to me, but it still isn’t perfectly clear what the foul was. Watch some more and tell me which you think moved the 7. I think that may explain how it could be missed - watching the cueball could take the eye away from the foul. Not sure. Maybe. I agree though that the ref should have done better.

Double hits and cue ball fouls I think are different and I do think players should call them on themselves. But I can see Maha’s point about when refs are there and supposed to make the calls.
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Go watch it again at .25 speed, it's obvious the CB hit the 7.


EDIT: My apologies, I didn't get to this part of the thread yet :)
JPB2 said:
I watched some more at .5 speed and I think it was the cue ball after all. In any event the 7 moved a foot as nobody except the ref and perhaps shooter missed.
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Chris said:
Some people have a strong moral compass and live by a strong code of ethics. Personal integrity is very important to them.

To some other people, those things are less important.
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Agreed, some people don't care if they cheat someone else, as long as they win, I don't like those people.

jimmyg said:
Absolutely disgraceful on the part of the shooter....So obvious that it was basically cheating.
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100%, reminds me of the Yapp foul he didn't call on himself.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Either player is allowed by the rules to ask the referee to reconsider his call. In addition, if the call involves a rules interpretation, the player may ask for the TD to overrule the call.
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Unless there is replay video allowed - why would a ref change his call merely on a player’s request? I think that the foul should have been called - but for the integrity of any game where you deem a ref to be in control, without allowing video replay for the ref to reconsider - the whole idea of allowing refs to change calls based solely on a players viewpoint makes no sense to me.

We are not talking about rules interpretation here - we are talking about real time and what a ref saw or did not see. If you tell me that a ref can look at a replay based on a player’s admission and then change his decision then I would agree.

Allowing any ref to make a declaration based only a player’s statement does not make sense to me.
 
GideonF said:
Do you really think if the shooter here said “I hit the 7b” it would not change the outcome? You think the ref would have said “I called it good, no foul!”
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Unless the ref can look at a replay - why would he change his decision- refs goof - part of every sport- if tape review is allowed a s part of a player request - yes I would agree with ref changes in decisions - but without tape review - ref changes based only on player admissions or disputes becomes a chaotic situation .
 
mikemosconi said:
Unless the ref can look at a replay - why would he change his decision- refs goof - part of every sport- if tape review is allowed a s part of a player request - yes I would agree with ref changes in decisions - but without tape review - ref changes based only on player admissions or disputes becomes a chaotic situation .
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It’s unlikely, although not impossible, that the ref would change his call based solely on what the aggrieved player says. I can imagine a rare situation where the player might explain the physics (“if I’d hit the 2b first the CB would have gone left. Since it went right I must have hit the 1”) but it would take a rare occasion and a clear thinking ref.

I can think of many instances where the referee would change his decision based on what the *other* player says. This one is a good example. “Ref, the CB hit the 7b on the jump”. That player has no reason to lie and I can’t imagine the referee ignoring it to stick with their call. Or “I touched the ball” or “I feathered the CB” or “I double hit the CB” (all of which are routinely done in snooker).

There may well be instances where the referee is watching closely and sticks with their original call, like on a close hit where the referee is sure it wasn’t a foul. But I don’t think it’s most cases.
 
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mikemosconi said:
... Allowing any ref to make a declaration based only a player’s statement does not make sense to me.
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How about this: The ref is in position to see the most likely foul, but out of position for another. He does not call a foul. The seated player says, "I think he touched the seven." The head referee is seated, watching the match.
 
GideonF said:
It’s unlikely, although not impossible, that the ref would change his call based solely on what the aggrieved player says. I can imagine a rare situation where the player might explain the physics (“if I’d hit the 2b first the CB would have gone left. Since it went right I must have hit the 1”) but it would take a rare occasion and a clear thinking ref.

I can think of many instances where the referee would change his decision based on what the *other* player says. This one is a good example. “Ref, the CB hit the 7b on the jump”. That player has no reason to lie and I can’t imagine the referee ignoring it to stick with their call. Or “I touched the ball” or “I feathered the CB” or “I double hit the CB” (all of which are routinely done in snooker).

There may well be instances where the referee is watching closely and sticks with their original call, like on a close hit where the referee is sure it wasn’t a foul. But I don’t think it’s most cases.
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I don’t think a ref can ever change a call on what a player says or decide to weigh credibility etc…. Watching a replay is different.
 
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