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Either way, I'm trying to have a conversation about rules. If I wanna make a 1p game, I'm sure I can do it without anyone's help and without a 3 hour drive.

You're right. You could have two players tapping the cue ball into an object ball right on the fifty yard line for eternity and yes, the frozen-to-the-rail rule would guard against it but I think (and I'm sure you agree) that's a helluva rare instance to guard against.

Ah, I get your point. But, I'd like to add, the difference between your two scenarios is, when a ball is frozen to the rail, you're still interacting with that rail. Like, if I soft bank a frozen ball, it's still rebounding off that rail. If my cue ball is frozen to the object-ball and I...

Well, we can eliminate 9ball completely since the Three Foul Rule eliminates the possibility of a stalemate. 8ball too can be eliminated since its stalemates are strictly related to imminent illegal pocketing of the 8ball, nothing to do with freezes. That leaves 1p.

Okay so, you're arguing that when the cue ball is frozen to the object ball, I can shoot in any direction, so long as the object ball moves, it's legal (we're going to assume a legal stroke was performed). So, object ball frozen to the rail, so long as the object ball moves, it too should be legal?

I guess my point is, there's not much to utilize by making the correlation. The only commonality is that two things are touching ("frozen"). After that, object balls frozen to rails have nothing in common with cue balls frozen to object balls. If there's some value I'm missing, please feel...

Did you factor in all the time you'd save by not arguing about balls frozen to rails?

You do realize, you're now opening the door for 1p players to bark at you for a game. :P

Great poolrooms begin with solid business plans. I know that's the least sexy answer one can give but a closed room always sucks. In my opinion, you need a management team that is flexible and professional. You want people that know the game well, that know the bar industry well, and know...

What tournament?

Okay, I know what you're talking about. There are similar kick-safes in 8ball. If that ball is frozen, the safety is a lot more dangerous. Okay, so another question - if someone approached you for 1-hole action and said, they'd play you but no frozen-to-the-rail rule. Like, for both of you...

Can you help me understand, instead? Maybe post an example of what you're talking about?

Also, I didn't reply to your paragraph about bad play since that's a bit more obvious. Yes, you can't hit the cue ball illegally now that they're frozen. The cue ball and object ball are treated as a single mass so the double-hit is no longer an issue but general cuing rules still apply.

See, I don't think these rules are related at all. When an object ball is frozen to the rail, it activates a new foul. When the cue ball is frozen to an object ball, it eliminates a foul (specifically the double hit). This is evident by who is responsible for making the declaration. When an...

I just want to add, there are two types of arguments to be had in a frozen to the rail scenario. 1. is the ball frozen? (fact) 2. was the player warned? (protocol) In games like 9ball, the arguments will almost always be fact-based since, once the shot is played, the ball is likely no longer...

Cue balls frozen to object balls are an entirely different story. That's double-hit stuff and there are things that can only happen if you double-hit OR push-through the cue ball. I like the current rule where if it's frozen, you can do anything, but any noticeable gap means the exception is...

I have to say, I find the poll results fascinating. I know it's only 14 votes but 100% believe this rule is important (I haven't voted). Pretty evident that Bob Jewett and I are in the minority here and although that doesn't surprise me, I guess I'm a little surprised by how overwhelming the...

I cannot tell you how many arguments have occurred over this. Once you start breaking out flashlights and magnifying glasses (which has happened), what constitutes "frozen" becomes problematic. Do threads count? If not, almost nothing is frozen.

I was once refereeing an APA match between two low ranked players in 8ball. There were a couple balls frozen to the rail. The opponent called all of them frozen, had me come over to confirm, and then the shooter went for something else, keeping the balls frozen. Because it was APA and I...

this goes right to the core of what I'm talking about. I just don't see the value of the rule. Quite literally, I can think of one scenario where my shot selection would outright change if a ball were frozen. Nearly every other scenario, I'm going to make a mild adjustment and make sure I get...