Wrap oxidation

mister__p

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi all

I purchased a new predator Ikon 2 cue in around 2011 but for various reasons, never played with it. Instead, I stored in it a dry enclosed cue rack and also in a Predator 4/8 cue case along with other cues during all that time. Every month or so, I would take it and my other cues out to check, polish and admire.

Recently, I noticed the wrap on the ikon 2 had a powdered look in places and after wiping with damp cloth, noticed very slight black residue coming off onto the cloth but the wrap still looked and felt fine. Thinking it might have been oxidation or mould, cleaned the wrap and after it dried thoroughly, wrapped it in cling film essentially cutting it from all moisture. Fast forward a few months, I checked the wrap again and it noticed it has decomposed and become very sticky and rubbery. Just holding the cue by the wrap left my hand black and sticky.

Given my apartment is always fairly dry ( < 45% humid ) and I don't have any mould problems on my other cues or anything else come to that, I suspect the wrap suffered from oxidation

Predator have offered to re-wrap the cue at cost but I would like to ask a few questions

1. Is it normal for an OEM synthetic leather IKON wrap to degrade over time in this way?
2. Did I store the cue incorrectly?
3. What is teh best way to store cues with wraps to minimise these types of issues?

A small part of me thinks the re-wrap should be free of charge as it was acknowledged the cue was in unused and in immaculate condition and therefore likely a materials issues rather than wear and tear but given the cue is ~ 7 years old and the cost is reasonable, I will pay.

Thanks in advance
 

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
You say you cleaned and dried the wrap....you did not mention how...many ways, and most involve much moisture...then wrapped it in cling wrap....not a good thing. Even in a case, moisture comes and goes...things need to 'breathe' Wrapping a freshly cleaned wrap with plastic wrap, holds moisture in. Even though a wrap seems dry shortly after cleaning it...there is still a lot of moisture in the cue in that area. Wrapping it in cling wrap holds it in, very tightly. My recommendation is to pay the fee and move on....and never cling wrap a cue again.
dave
 

Burnett Custom Cues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You say you cleaned and dried the wrap....you did not mention how...many ways, and most involve much moisture...then wrapped it in cling wrap....not a good thing. Even in a case, moisture comes and goes...things need to 'breathe' Wrapping a freshly cleaned wrap with plastic wrap, holds moisture in. Even though a wrap seems dry shortly after cleaning it...there is still a lot of moisture in the cue in that area. Wrapping it in cling wrap holds it in, very tightly. My recommendation is to pay the fee and move on....and never cling wrap a cue again.
dave

What he said. Just because something feels dry doesn’t mean it actually is. You trap the moisture and exacerbated your problem. Eat the fee and mark it up to lessons learned.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Predator wraps are put on with contact cement. Contact cement never fully cures in the same way as wood glue or epoxy, so there will allways be some moisture present.
Your decission to use clingfilm ruined the wrap.
When your having a new wrap installed, go for a real leather wrap instead of that fake leather thing Predator uses.
A real leather wrap will last a really long time and all you have to do, is to apply some leather conditioner once in a while.
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Predator wraps are put on with contact cement. Contact cement never fully cures in the same way as wood glue or epoxy, so there will allways be some moisture present.
Your decission to use clingfilm ruined the wrap.
When your having a new wrap installed, go for a real leather wrap instead of that fake leather thing Predator uses.
A real leather wrap will last a really long time and all you have to do, is to apply some leather conditioner once in a while.

Well said. That is of course after you build the channel that is ridiculously deep. I don't know what made rubber so popular. I'm not a fan.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Sounds like how car trim rubber does exposed over long time.....NG...not good


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well said. That is of course after you build the channel that is ridiculously deep.
Tell me about it! I have a customer that wants a Spanish bull wrap on his Predator sport cue. Not only is the groove more than twice as deep as I need it to be, the wrap groove extends all the way to the buttcap... :angry:
So not only do I have to build up the wrap groove, I have to shorten it too. I'm using several layers of West with black pigment to shorten the wrap groove. I think it's gonna look fairly seamless when I'm done.
 
Last edited:

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tell me about it, I have a customer that wants a Spanish bull wrap on his Predator sport cue. Not only is the groove more than twice as deep as I need it to be, the wrap groove extends all the way to the buttcap... :angry:
So not only do I have to build up the wrap groove, I have to shorten it too. I'm using several layers of West with black pigment to shorten the wrap groove. I think it's gonna look fairly seamless when I'm done.


Awesome. I hope it works out. A lot of extra work that I hope your charging for. Even more surprising is the other companies that are doing it for what ever stupid reason.
 
Last edited:

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Awesome. I hope it works out. A lot of extra work that I hope your charging for. Even more surprising is the other companies that are doing it for what ever stupid reason.
I sure do. A new butt isn`t that more expensive when all is said and done, but it`s the customers choice..
I swear some companies do this to intentionally mess with us cue repair/cue maker people...
 

mister__p

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You say you cleaned and dried the wrap....you did not mention how...many ways, and most involve much moisture...then wrapped it in cling wrap....not a good thing. Even in a case, moisture comes and goes...


After wiping the wrap with a damp micro-fibre cloth, I let it stand in my cue rack for a few days. The room in which the rack sat was air-conditioned and had exposure to light and good air circulation. What I did not understand at the time was why the wrap started powdering in places in Mar 2018. From 2011 to Jan 2018, it looked and felt in perfect condition.

Sounds like how car trim rubber does exposed over long time.....NG...not good

A mate who's a materials engineer suspects the breaking down was a fairly advanced stage of oxidation way beyond rescue. He also pointed out that it was most likely due to the age (7 years) as fake leathers do deteriorate with time, some faster than others depending on many factors. Applying cling film in late May in my case could have been a catalyst but the wrap was a goner anyway.

In conversation with a local Poison/Predator seller about the issue. He pointed out that he has seen similar issues raised before. In most cases, they were put down to wear and tear but a couple were warrantied as they occured fairly soon after the cues were purchased. He also mentioned that he had sent back a couple of Poison cues with sticky rubber handles.

Hopefully, I can get a real leather wrap put on as a replacement. well worth a few extra bucks

Any tips for keeping a leather wrap in top shape ? Light shoe polish every now and again?
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
Any tips for keeping a leather wrap in top shape ? Light shoe polish every now and again?

The answer is right up above, just apply leather conditioner every year or so, otherwise stop overthinking it. Play with your cue and enjoy it.
 
Top