Another how would you shoot it thread

I’ve shot that shot many times. I’ve made and missed it probably about 50/50. My experience is that I don’t use spin to help that shot. I just pick how much to cut it and shoot it medium-firm with a little top spin to get the cue ball naturally rolling.

The big thing here is that you need to see the angle of the bank, see the contact point to send it on that angle, and aim your shot to hit that angle. Just be aware this is a fairly thin cut.

Keep in mind that the collision of the cue ball will put some spin on the object ball that will shorten the bank. So you may need to over cut the ball a smidge.

You might think some outside english could help widen the angle to compensate for the collision-induced-spin. I think that’s a bad idea. First, you should recognize that cue ball spin doesn’t transfer very much to the object ball on thin cuts. That really should be reserved for fuller hits.

That means you’re not so much helping the shot as you are making it harder because now any sidespin you’ve added will create deflection that you’ll need to compensate for in your aim. I would only add sidespin to the shot if I felt it necessary for position, not for the sake of helping the shot.


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I can share a video in a bit. I actually found this shot likes to send the cueball two rails and scratch in the side with just top.

Outside English likes to send it three rails towards the corner pocket but mostly doesn’t scratch (but close enough to be uncomfortable).

Bottom English behaves similar to Outside English going that three rail track. Or if you really draw the ball, it will shoot straight to the corner pocket.

Inside English hits the long rail and really checks up on the short rail, sending the cueball safely through the middle of the table.

Honestly, inside English might not be a bad choice. You are most likely to hit this ball too fat. And sometimes if you try to be really mindful of hitting it thin, you end up grossly over compensating. So hitting it with what seemingly feels right (too fat), the deflection from inside English compensated for you and makes you hit it thinner than your initial aim.


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The flatter the angle into the pocket makes the pocket bigger
So you can cut it up the rail a little more and hit it harder
inside English will also help to hold it up a little more

MattPoland said:

I can share a video in a bit. I actually found this shot likes to send the cueball two rails and scratch in the side with just top.

Outside English likes to send it three rails towards the corner pocket but mostly doesn’t scratch (but close enough to be uncomfortable).

Bottom English behaves similar to Outside English going that three rail track. Or if you really draw the ball, it will shoot straight to the corner pocket.

Inside English hits the long rail and really checks up on the short rail, sending the cueball safely through the middle of the table.

Honestly, inside English might not be a bad choice. You are most likely to hit this ball too fat. And sometimes if you try to be really mindful of hitting it thin, you end up grossly over compensating. So hitting it with what seemingly feels right (too fat), the deflection from inside English compensated for you and makes you hit it thinner than your initial aim.


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Click to expand...

It’ll only scratch in the side with a rolling top. Use enough top and it’ll grab the bottom rail to come long of the side.

surffisher2a said:

...which English (if any) would give us the largest margin for error when attempting this shot ?

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None. English only makes aiming it harder.

pj
chgo

I would not use any english on this bank. Last ball to be made, I don't need the cue ball to do anything special.

Hits 'em Hard said:

It’ll only scratch in the side with a rolling top. Use enough top and it’ll grab the bottom rail to come long of the side.

Click to expand...

Great point. I gave that a try and you’re right. I also found you can overcook the top and go long of the side all the way to the corner pocket. But you almost have to try to make that happen for it to occur. For some reason I was missing a lot more (hitting it fat) but I think that was just me rushing.


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surffisher2a said:

I was practicing with a friend last night and the following shot came up in 8ball. Neither of us could consistently make this shot, we were about 20% making it. Both of us initially used opposite English than the other.

So we debated a little bit and experimented with both right and left spin and never really did improve our percentage. We actually had the same the same percentage using both right and left. honestly the shot seemed more dependent on speed rather than English.

So in theory, which English (if any) would give us the largest margin for error when attempting this shot ?

Click to expand...

Well, your diagram shows a sharper angle into the cushion and a flatter angle out to the opposite side pocket- the only way that i know that happens is applied right english on the cue ball that would narrow the angle out from the cushion towards the opposite side pocket. so, yes, the shot can be made with no english on the cue ball- but then it would need to hit that 8 ball a little fuller than what your diagram indicates. Both methods will work- it is just a matter of choice- I like the thinner hit on the 8 with some right on the cue ball- no scratch and avoid a double hit on the 8 ball - just my choice here. This shot comes up at times on bar tables with weaker cushions- I have seen it and shot it.

IME, this is a speed shot, not an English shot. Regardless, it's not easy.

It's actually easier for me (YMMV) to just kick it back to the side pocket. Still not much English, just stroke medium-soft (between soft and a medium speed shot) with a little left/top left.

This is assuming that the OB is at least a ball and a half or more off the rail.

I’m hitting it with a bit of outside.

Those better than me, likely most here, please convince me that I’m wrong...

I didn’t do as much editing on this one. So the setup and misses are included (padding the length a bit). So feel free to skip through it.

Ultimately it shows the outcomes of different English on this shot. In the end, I’m thinking I’d favor a hair of inside.

https://youtu.be/wVVKAu-c0pE


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David in FL said:

I’m hitting it with a bit of outside.

Those better than me, likely most here, please convince me that I’m wrong...

Click to expand...

There's no right/wrong answer - it's a choice of tradeoffs.

Outside (ideally) eliminates transferred spin and throw, so you can aim for the equal-angle bank without those adjustments - but you have to account for squerve.

No side makes it easier to hit the OB accurately, but you have to account for contact-induced throw/spin changing the bank angle.

Inside is my least favorite because it introduces variables for both the CB aim and the bank angle.

All of this ignores the need for position on the next shot.

pj
chgo

MattPoland said:

I didn’t do as much editing on this one. So the setup and misses are included (padding the length a bit). So feel free to skip through it.

Ultimately it shows the outcomes of different English on this shot. In the end, I’m thinking I’d favor a hair of inside.

Click to expand...

Did you try any different speeds? All the shots on the vid were pretty firm (and well hit ).

pj
chgo

surffisher2a said:

I was practicing with a friend last night and the following shot came up in 8ball. Neither of us could consistently make this shot, we were about 20% making it. Both of us initially used opposite English than the other.

So we debated a little bit and experimented with both right and left spin and never really did improve our percentage. We actually had the same the same percentage using both right and left. honestly the shot seemed more dependent on speed rather than English.

So in theory, which English (if any) would give us the largest margin for error when attempting this shot ?

Click to expand...

Used to play a lot of bank pool. I would expect to make that shot maybe 90%. I would use outside and not shoot it hard just medium speed.

Patrick Johnson said:

Did you try any different speeds? All the shots on the vid were pretty firm (and well hit ).



pj

chgo

Click to expand...

My inner bank pool player loves to hit banks firm.

Any particular English in mind? I squirm a bit at using side spin any softer at that distance for fear of masse getting more opportunity to be a factor. It’s hard to imagine a rolling speed that get the object ball to the pocket without still tracking near that side pocket scratch. Soft draw for a drag stroke game n a shot that’s already challenging makes me worry about my dog stroke making an appearance.


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Patrick Johnson said:

Did you try any different speeds?

Click to expand...

MattPoland said:

It’s hard to imagine a rolling speed that get the object ball to the pocket without still tracking near that side pocket scratch.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. I'll try to remember to give it a go myself tomorrow.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. I'll try to remember to give it a go myself tomorrow.



pj

chgo

Click to expand...

I just gave it a go. It worked out nice. Cueball came well above the side pocket.

EDIT: Difference must be from it not momentarily riding the tangent line with the firm hit. This is my preferred way to shoot it now.


https://youtu.be/lj32IYBCbDU


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