I've started the ball rolling

P

PoolSharkAllen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pooltchr said:
If anyone has a copy of the player's meeting at KOTH, I believe KT stated that he would "PERSONALLY" guarantee that each tour card holder would make the $100K...if they didn't make that much, he would make up the difference. I don't think he can hide behind the corporation on that one.
Steve
Click to expand...
Guaranteeing a tour card holder that KT will pay the difference between their annual winnings and 100K doesn't sound very bright to me.

If a tour card player underperforms and only makes, say 30K in prize money, then paying them the difference of 70K is an absurd guarantee for KT to make.

With this kind of payout for underperforming, KT all but guaranteed that the IPT will fail, especially considering that the IPT's income is less than their expenditures.
 
9balllvr

9balllvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
NYC cue dude said:
Today is deadline day, for ME.

I think it is no coincidence that today the ipt will be "downsizing", and wouldn't be surprised if we either hear that the ipt has folded becuase the ho deal "fell apart", or that while waiting for the deal, all ipt business activity is suspended.

My first order of business today was to call both george fells and Mike panoz from Billiards digest. I spoke to them spearately at great length, and we all came away with a little more awareness of the grim situation.

My biggest concern was that they were aware of the current issues with the ipt, and what their professional position on it was. Before speaking with them, i wasnt so sure where their allgiance lay. I was relieved to hear that their first loyalty was with the readers, and that they had a RESPONSIBILITY to report on all billiards news, both good and bad.

Interestingly enough, their website already reflects some of the ongoing problems with the ip.t the forthcoming issue has some current info on the ipt's status, but when it went to print, things werent as bad as they are now. remember, they can only report the facts as they are, not speculation. Some examples of fact: london inexplicably cancelled. Players not being paid for reno, despite public proclomations of how payments were handled, the lies about the payments afterwards, and the staff being laid off today. Those are facts. Specualtions wich cant be printed, there is or isnt a ho deal, kt does or doesnt have money, what is in kt's head at any given time, etc.

Rest assured, BD is on it and will report all of the facts as they are revealed.

I then got into contact with fox news. They were vey much interested in my info, especially in light of kt's past and present troubles with the us government. It has been requested that i prepare a timeline (thanks guys for not helping when i requested it 3 days ago) on all the events, starting back from last may. I will spend the weekend trying to amass the information. Don't worry, i'll do it myself.

Next I WENT to my attorneys office, who called a very large law firm who handles these things. I can't go into specifics on the forum, but i will say that they are interestd in the case on a 33% contingency basis, with expenses coming off the top only if a judgement is awarded and collected. Their main objective, and they told me how they would do it, would to pursue the concept that a fraud had been committed and then be subjected to punitive damages. they would pursue the ipt, and all it's officers, collectively and individually. (yes, that means you too DENO). They would like to speak to a small handful of playes first, take a "mini" deposition from each, and then file suit. Discovery could take place subsequent to that.

All by 2pm, new york time, how about that?

1 more question for kt and deno. Do you hear that rumbling? Do you? It's the sound of me coming afte you.

rg
Click to expand...

a judgment would be great, but did they tell you what that piece of paper is really worth? how long it would take and what would happen to collect off of the judgement?
 
9balllvr

9balllvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
EasyMoney said:
I agree 100% with what you are doing, but why give KT the heads up with all the details? Wouldn't discretion be advisable at this point, so he is not able to prepare?
Click to expand...

he doesn't appear to be an stupid man - i am sure he knows what could come down the pike and how he plans to get out of it - most criminal minds do.
 
Banker Burt

Banker Burt

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fight For What Is Right!

JS is fighting from one approach, by befriending the IPT because all IPT players have collectively made more money this year than any time in our sports history. No argument can be made with his statement.

Others are fighting for principal. A promise is a promise and the worst thing you can do is lie. In this day and age deceit is a (unfortunate) natural cure for denial.

I hope the IPT players remember that they were made shareholders of the IPT and trusted headquarters to do their job. You have to also remember all the players who have spent big bucks to make it on to this tour (through qualifiers).

Some are saying this is complicated, but I think otherwise. We all work for a living and when the boss says we are going to get paid on Friday, we expect to be paid ON FRIDAY. If not we start looking for another job.
(Pretty simple, eh?)

But, if you are self-employed you can only turn to yourself. If you have done your work then you have no other choice than to make every attempt to collect and if your efforts fail then you have no choice but to take action.

I will not take sides on this matter because I have many-a-time walked away from money owed, appreciative of the work that I did get paid for. In other words, just move on and eventually you will recover.

Then again, the times I have sued is when the person has been caught in a lie and then attempts to disrespect my intellegence. In other words, just move on but make sure the person/s don't think they can get over on others.

I been a building contractor in California for a very long time.

Regardless of your approach, FIGHT FOR WHAT IS RIGHT?

And if you are right you will sleep well at night...
 
Last edited:
J

Jimk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
john schmidt said:
this is just my two cents im just a poolplayer.i dont know anything about all this legal stuff ,but shouldnt we wait until the chicago tourney before people start attacking him.again i know randy is looking out for the players.but you know kevin has done more for me in a year than anybody in pool ever.i say lets give him some room to work his magic .
Click to expand...
John, I don't think what Kevin works is magic, but I certainly understand your point of view. There is more to a good tour than money and massages. Kevin Trudeau has the reputation of a snake and one guy I would be very leary of crawling in to bed with. Supreme congrats on the U.S. Open and all the best with the IPT.
 
M

memikey

Never Has Been
Silver Member
PoolSharkAllen said:
Guaranteeing a tour card holder that KT will pay the difference between their annual winnings and 100K doesn't sound very bright to me.

If a tour card player underperforms and only makes, say 30K in prize money, then paying them the difference of 70K is an absurd guarantee for KT to make.

With this kind of payout for underperforming, KT all but guaranteed that the IPT will fail, especially considering that the IPT's income is less than their expenditures.
Click to expand...

With respect that is not correct and is not at all what he "guaranteed".

He said that if any player did not earn a minimum of $100,000/- from prize money plus IPT profit share plus fees from appearances,endorsements etc he would make up the difference from his own pocket.In reality this "guarantee" is impractical to implement as without significant further clarification and definition it amounts to little more than utterly meaningless woffle and I would tend to agree that it is somewhat absurd in principle.

Nevertheless we can at least be sure that it was very clearly not intended to mean what you have said above:)
 
N

NYC cue dude

Banned
NYC cue dude said:
Today is deadline day, for ME.

I think it is no coincidence that today the ipt will be "downsizing", and wouldn't be surprised if we either hear that the ipt has folded becuase the ho deal "fell apart", or that while waiting for the deal, all ipt business activity is suspended.

My first order of business today was to call both george fells and Mike panoz from Billiards digest. I spoke to them spearately at great length, and we all came away with a little more awareness of the grim situation.

My biggest concern was that they were aware of the current issues with the ipt, and what their professional position on it was. Before speaking with them, i wasnt so sure where their allgiance lay. I was relieved to hear that their first loyalty was with the readers, and that they had a RESPONSIBILITY to report on all billiards news, both good and bad.

Interestingly enough, their website already reflects some of the ongoing problems with the ip.t the forthcoming issue has some current info on the ipt's status, but when it went to print, things werent as bad as they are now. remember, they can only report the facts as they are, not speculation. Some examples of fact: london inexplicably cancelled. Players not being paid for reno, despite public proclomations of how payments were handled, the lies about the payments afterwards, and the staff being laid off today. Those are facts. Specualtions wich cant be printed, there is or isnt a ho deal, kt does or doesnt have money, what is in kt's head at any given time, etc.

Rest assured, BD is on it and will report all of the facts as they are revealed.

I then got into contact with fox news. They were vey much interested in my info, especially in light of kt's past and present troubles with the us government. It has been requested that i prepare a timeline (thanks guys for not helping when i requested it 3 days ago) on all the events, starting back from last may. I will spend the weekend trying to amass the information. Don't worry, i'll do it myself.

Next I WENT to my attorneys office, who called a very large law firm who handles these things. I can't go into specifics on the forum, but i will say that they are interestd in the case on a 33% contingency basis, with expenses coming off the top only if a judgement is awarded and collected. Their main objective, and they told me how they would do it, would to pursue the concept that a fraud had been committed and then be subjected to punitive damages. they would pursue the ipt, and all it's officers, collectively and individually. (yes, that means you too DENO). They would like to speak to a small handful of playes first, take a "mini" deposition from each, and then file suit. Discovery could take place subsequent to that.

All by 2pm, new york time, how about that?

1 more question for kt and deno. Do you hear that rumbling? Do you? It's the sound of me coming afte you.

rg
Click to expand...


I now win round two. Apparently av84fun thinks i mislead people reagarding attorneys fees. He seems to thinki stated that attorneys would handle this case for "free".

He thinks i have been keeping the arrangement as some hidden secret.

What makes it even funnier is that i think he even quited from the same post within the last day or two.

I suppose because av84fun feels he should be in the loop at al times, and i didnt consult him befroehand, that i am doing something dishonest.

Well, in a post nearly made ONE MONTH ago, october 20th to be exact, i told this forum that lawyers would be willing to take this case on contingency (he even doubted that, shall ifind those posts too), and now he says, essentially, "itold you so, he slipped and no one is taking the case for free. lmao. Additionally, i informed everyone that the lawyers would be taking the expenses off the top, meaning, NO MONEY REQUIRED UPFRONT.

This would all be possible because they would claim intnetions to defraud and sue for much more than the 3 million.

As stated previously, the players at this time are not choosing to sue, because they still believe in the ipt, or atleast are willing to extend to them the benifit of the doubt.

Furthermore, given the expense/risk of trying this case, the lawyers are no longer convinced at this time, that the players will follow through.

So av84fun, you have now been proven wrong in everyone of our disputes.

Sounds like strike 2 to me.

For a guy who always has to be right, and have the last word, i am still waiting for you to be right, atleast once.

rg
 
justnum

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
RG you sure is taking a good deal of sweet time

wasting good intel on people left behind.

My bet anyone still caught up in IPT hype is not from a big city high advertising area.
 
N

NYC cue dude

Banned
this guy has really gotten under my skin.

I don't think anyone has ever questioned my integrity. Not on this forum, or in my everyday life.

Why would I post a bogus story. MAke something up? doesnt make sense if you know me. I don't need to post to seem important. I am already important.

I am gald that vindication has come my way though.

And it's not even that i need to be right that matters. I am human and i make mistakes. But this av84fun person has to be right at all costs, and truth and reality be damned.

Turns out I AM right, on both disputes.

Hope this settles this and the moderators take a long hard look at the confrontational manner in which he has been posting towards many longstanding forum memebers here recently. All this from a guy who startedposting like 3 or 4 weeks ago. In fact the reno overdue payments are older than he is.

rg
 
kevin s

kevin s

Tennessee
Silver Member
NYC CUE DUDE- Did you play in the IPT? You are like myself, disappointed to say the least! This isn't an attack on you by any means! I have at least 10 friends that played in Reno and I haven't heard any of them say they are looking to sue! They are still hopeful that something will come through! I have been on the road plenty and know first hand how hard it is to survive! Even if they down size to say 100,000 for first place all the top players will line up to play! If the IPT bankrupts then I guess we will keep doing what they been doing! We all have beaten people out of money that our opponent had no chance to win! You reap what you sow! TEN FOLD! I sponser a couple of players in various tournaments and hope that we all haven't been hustled or scammed! If we have I guess we had it coming!!! Until then you will find me and my friends doing what we love to do! Play Pool!
 
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av84fun

Banned
NYC Dude...<<I now win round two. Apparently av84fun thinks i mislead people reagarding attorneys fees. He seems to thinki stated that attorneys would handle this case for "free".>>

First, I didn't state that YOU said that but that it WAS said on this forum..which it was...so sorry, no win for ya today Randy.

<<He thinks i have been keeping the arrangement as some hidden secret.>>

Please point to any post I have ever made that justifies that remark...or have the courtesy to withdraw it.

<<I suppose because av84fun feels he should be in the loop at al times, and i didnt consult him befroehand, that i am doing something dishonest>>

Ditto the above. But of course, I cannot help or be responsible for your suppositions.

<<Well, in a post nearly made ONE MONTH ago, october 20th to be exact, i told this forum that lawyers would be willing to take this case on contingency (he even doubted that, shall ifind those posts too),>>

Don't bother finding it Randy...I DID doubt it...I DO doubt it...and in point of FACT..there IS NO CASE...IS THERE?? Did I miss it? So, as of this date, they DIDN'T take the case on a contingency basis or otherwise!

MAN...you are desperate to save face.

<<Furthermore, given the expense/risk of trying this case, the lawyers are no longer convinced at this time, that the players will follow through.>>


Ooops. Randy...that is exactly what I speculated...and labelled as speculation...earlier today. THANKS for confirming that one of my two suppositions in that post was correct.

And BECAUSE they were not convinced that the players would follow through THERE WAS NO CASE...so they DIDN'T "take the case" on a contingency basis or any other basis.

<<Sounds like strike 2 to me.>>

I would just suggest that you get your hearing checked.

<<For a guy who always has to be right,>>

No, Randy. I admitted to relying on appearances re: my impression that MS ducked AF...and wrote an OPEN APOLOGY to you on this forum. So, yet again...you have posted falsely.

And gimme a break re: not admitting things. You are UTTERLY SLAM DUNKED by BOTH sjm and Linda re: the circumstances surrounding LJJ's getting the MS match. Your version...according to them is just wrong. Why don't you just admit to that Randy?? I don't care about an apology...could care less in fact. But for your own self-respect, you should own up when you are wrong....Dontcha think?


<<and have the last word>>

As the RECORD shows you have posted MANY times directly concerning me following my posts. So, yet again...you are incorrect.

And I am just curious. You have implied that you are a very wealthy man...willing to buy the IPT and propose multi-million dollar bets with me...have your own driver...are EXTREMELY busy and have an open disdain for the majority of FANS...who are the majority BY FAR...of the posters to this forum.

So why, might I ask, do you waste your "precious time" as you have personnally referred to it...engaging in this debate with me...a lowly fan?

Just curious.

Regards,
Jim
 
J

jjinfla

Banned
The attorneys will work very hard to get the best deal possible for their clients. However, that deal may not always be to the liking of their clients

So what happens now if the attorneys find out that the very best deal they can negotiate is to settle for 1/3 of the 3 million promised payout. What if that is what the attorneys say. What if they agree that it is not fair but it really is the best deal that they can negotiate?

Then the players settle for the 1 million. That check goes to the attorneys. The attorneys take all of their expenses right from the top as stated by cue dude in his post of 10-20-06. I imagine their expenses would be pretty steep at say $450 per hour. Say that comes to $200,000 and that leaves $800,000 for the players. But wait, the attorneys get 1/3 of that which comes to $266,666.66 leaving $533,333.34 to be split among the players.

Then you have to decide how to split it. Do all players then get an equal slice of the pie? Each player gets $2,666.67? I don't think Rodney would be too happy with receiving $14,000 less than the check he now has in his hands.

Notice all those 6's in those figures?

Isn't that the sign of the devil?

Jake
 
J

Jimk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
john schmidt said:
this is just my two cents im just a poolplayer.i dont know anything about all this legal stuff ,but shouldnt we wait until the chicago tourney before people start attacking him.again i know randy is looking out for the players.but you know kevin has done more for me in a year than anybody in pool ever.i say lets give him some room to work his magic .
Click to expand...
John, I agree. I think the players would be wise to cash their checks and wait to see what happens. I personally think anything that KT does that's magic will come at the expense of someone else. He is a bad guy and not good for pool or pool players. All the best to you and all of the players. Some day someone who is honest is going to come along and help the players get a real tour started. The question is, will the players take advantage of it?
 
M

memikey

Never Has Been
Silver Member
Jimk said:
John, I agree. I think the players would be wise to cash their checks and wait to see what happens. I personally think anything that KT does that's magic will come at the expense of someone else. He is a bad guy and not good for pool or pool players. All the best to you and all of the players. Some day someone who is honest is going to come along and help the players get a real tour started. The question is, will the players take advantage of it?
Click to expand...

:confused: You have quoted and used John Schmidt's comment about "waiting until the Chicago tourney before attacking KT" way way way out of context.That was said by him on 20 October against a background at that time of IPT still assuring players that The Chicago tournament was going ahead on its original November dates.The Chicago event taking place on its original dates is what he was advocating waiting for before attacking KT.Chicago then didn't happen and the obvious inference is that from that point on John would then have been in favour of criticising what KT/IPT had done,quite the reverse of what you are inferring.

The proposal to cut the Reno payments by a third hadn't even been announced at the time John said that never mind the question of whether the first cheque should be cashed having arisen.Therefore you linking John's comment about waiting and giving KT the benefit of doubt as some kind of a current endorsement of the principle of cashing the first cheques is absurd in the extreme.

Maybe John would support the cashing of cheques at this time,maybe not.......but the 20 October quote you used from him is totally irrelevant to that new issue.
 
DaveK

DaveK

Still crazy after all these years
Silver Member
Charlie Edwards said:
You, av84fun, are out-of-control. GET A GRIP!!
Click to expand...

I agree completely. Some of the threads the Puffer's involved in have turned very nasty, something we haven't seen around here for a while.

Dave
 
Roy Steffensen

Roy Steffensen

locksmith
Silver Member
cuetechasaurus said:
av84fun, you are quickly working your way thru the ranks of this forum's "Most Hated Users" list.
Click to expand...

Are you afraid of loosing the bad-rep-competition? :p

Sent you some, btw! :cool:
 
J

Jimk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
memikey said:
:confused: You have quoted and used John Schmidt's comment about "waiting until the Chicago tourney before attacking KT" way way way out of context.That was said by him on 20 October against a background at that time of IPT still assuring players that The Chicago tournament was going ahead on its original November dates.The Chicago event taking place on its original dates is what he was advocating waiting for before attacking KT.Chicago then didn't happen and the obvious inference is that from that point on John would then have been in favour of criticising what KT/IPT had done,quite the reverse of what you are inferring.

The proposal to cut the Reno payments by a third hadn't even been announced at the time John said that never mind the question of whether the first cheque should be cashed having arisen.Therefore you linking John's comment about waiting and giving KT the benefit of doubt as some kind of a current endorsement of the principle of cashing the first cheques is absurd in the extreme.

Maybe John would support the cashing of cheques at this time,maybe not.......but the 20 October quote you used from him is totally irrelevant to that new issue.
Click to expand...
Point well taken. The post by John was on this thread today.
 
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