Are APA rules really this incomplete???

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
I looked all over their website (American Poolplayers Association) under their rules section and could find nothing to address two separate incidences that occured this past week, one in my 8-ball league and one in my 9-ball league. I think that I am going to have to call the League Operator or at least the Division Rep. to get some answers. Maybe someone here (Scott Lee??) will come forth with the answers.
In the 8-ball league, an opponent of one of my teammates (to whom I was coaching for the match) had the cueball frozen to my teammates ball and had no shot at hitting one of her balls without some kind of 2 or more rail kick. She proceeded to get down on the shot as if she was slightly aiming TOWARD the ball that it was frozen to, which of course wasn't her ball. Then, she stood up as if to re-evaluate the shot. I told my teammate to get someone unbiased to watch the shot, which she dicked-around and did not do. So her opponent gets down on the shot just like before and hits the cueball, slightly moving my teammates ball about an inch then the cuball hits her ball and sends it to a rail. FOUL!!!! Only problem is, she said it was a good hit. Everyone at OUR table saw that it was a bad hit and NO ONE at her table saw the shot:rolleyes: So my teammate did not get ball-in-hand as in the APA it is the shooters call to determine if an unwatched hit is good or not. My question is this. Who has the right, if at all, to stop play and ask someone unbiased to watch a shot like this, and at what point can this be done? The player and coach? The Team Captain? Only the player? Can it be done AFTER the player is down on his/her shot? I need to know so the next time this happens the proper person can halt play and get someone to watch the shot.
In 9-ball league, a teammate was shooting another woman who presented herself (by bad cueball positioning) with a jacked-up shot. Me and two others at our table watched as this woman proceeded to curl two fingers over the ball (we're talking contact here) she had the cueball in front of to make her bridge (basically, she grabbed the ball for hand support). Nobody else from our team, neither the shooter, her coach, or the Team Captain saw it. Now, I know that this is NOT allowed in World Standardized Rule of Pool, but there is NOTHING I can find in the APA rules prohibiting this. Could someone have called a foul on this? And who would it have had to been to call it? I can't believe that the APA rules can be so thinly written as to not cover so very many things that can come up in a game of pool. Am I missing some rules here? Tell me about how I should have handled these two incidences here and how to find more rules concerning APA league play. Thanks to anyone that helps!!!

Maniac
 

JDB

Idiot Savant
Silver Member
Maniac said:
I looked all over their website (American Poolplayers Association) under their rules section and could find nothing to address two separate incidences that occured this past week, one in my 8-ball league and one in my 9-ball league. I think that I am going to have to call the League Operator or at least the Division Rep. to get some answers. Maybe someone here (Scott Lee??) will come forth with the answers.
In the 8-ball league, an opponent of one of my teammates (to whom I was coaching for the match) had the cueball frozen to my teammates ball and had no shot at hitting one of her balls without some kind of 2 or more rail kick. She proceeded to get down on the shot as if she was slightly aiming TOWARD the ball that it was frozen to, which of course wasn't her ball. Then, she stood up as if to re-evaluate the shot. I told my teammate to get someone unbiased to watch the shot, which she dicked-around and did not do. So her opponent gets down on the shot just like before and hits the cueball, slightly moving my teammates ball about an inch then the cuball hits her ball and sends it to a rail. FOUL!!!! Only problem is, she said it was a good hit. Everyone at OUR table saw that it was a bad hit and NO ONE at her table saw the shot:rolleyes: So my teammate did not get ball-in-hand as in the APA it is the shooters call to determine if an unwatched hit is good or not. My question is this. Who has the right, if at all, to stop play and ask someone unbiased to watch a shot like this, and at what point can this be done? The player and coach? The Team Captain? Only the player? Can it be done AFTER the player is down on his/her shot? I need to know so the next time this happens the proper person can halt play and get someone to watch the shot.
In 9-ball league, a teammate was shooting another woman who presented herself (by bad cueball positioning) with a jacked-up shot. Me and two others at our table watched as this woman proceeded to curl two fingers over the ball (we're talking contact here) she had the cueball in front of to make her bridge (basically, she grabbed the ball for hand support). Nobody else from our team, neither the shooter, her coach, or the Team Captain saw it. Now, I know that this is NOT allowed in World Standardized Rule of Pool, but there is NOTHING I can find in the APA rules prohibiting this. Could someone have called a foul on this? And who would it have had to been to call it? I can't believe that the APA rules can be so thinly written as to not cover so very many things that can come up in a game of pool. Am I missing some rules here? Tell me about how I should have handled these two incidences here and how to find more rules concerning APA league play. Thanks to anyone that helps!!!

Maniac
Maniac,

It has been my experience that either the coach or the player can stop play in order to get a neutral party to watch the shot. Not much can be done after a shot, because without a neutral party, call goes to the shooter.

What league do you shoot out of? I just started playing in the Denton County League on Wednesdays and Sundays.
 

Luxury

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That first foul is disgusting. Even if her team didn't see the shot you should have had her explain and therefor admit that she hit her opponent's ball and her team would have said, "Oh now that's a foul."

Did she deny that she was frozen to your player's ball?
 

HarleyKR07

New member
Yea anyone can call for someone to watch a hit...as for the 9-ball incident the APA might not write anything about that because that person has to be smart enough to know better. You immediatly have to call the shooter out. Remember, they put those sportsmanship and protest forms in for a reason, especially for the 8-ball concern you had.
 

fish on

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
tit for tat!

The way I handled it in the past was next time my shooter has a bad hit guess what it is my turn! they get the message real quick!
I also allow new players and especially girls the benefit of doubt as it really is a man's league and I enjoy seeing them compete!
Unless they do something real bad or intentionally I usually look the other way and let them have some fun.
Remember it is a bar league!
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
JDB said:
Maniac,
What league do you shoot out of? I just started playing in the Denton County League on Wednesdays and Sundays.

JDB,

South Arlington APA. Monday 8-ball, Thursday 9-ball.

Maniac
 
W

wayneward

Guest
Apa

I Hate the APA....Weak players, stupid rules, and poor management.
 

Gregg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
wayneward said:
I Hate the APA....Weak players, stupid rules, and poor management.

But obviously you have played; are you playing in a better league now? Feel free to share.
 
W

wayneward

Guest
Apa

Gregg said:
But obviously you have played; are you playing in a better league now? Feel free to share.

I'm finishing a BCA league now. It is also poorly ran. So, I will not be playing next session. It's the league operators, not the BCA. We have a new BCA league starting called Sin City pool league with 100% payback and better players.
APA is good for bangers. "You can't get better playin bangers".
 

ScottW

Fo' shizzle!
Silver Member
Situation #1 - this isn't a rules question. You said you told your teammate to get a third party to watch the shot (which was the right call), and your teammate chose not to do so. And whenever there is a disagreement in what happened, the nod goes to the shooter.

Situation #2: APA 8 and 9 ball rules manual, pg. 17, item j. Though describing a ball-in-hand situation, I would interpret the 'hand holding it touches another ball' bit to be relevant to this situation.

Use caution when picking up or placing the cue
ball in a ball-in-handsituation. The cue ball is
always alive. If the cue ball, or the hand holding it
or moving it, touches another ball it is a cue ball
foul and your opponent has ball-in-hand. Be
especially careful when picking up or placing the
cue ball in a tight spot.
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
ScottW said:
Situation #1 - this isn't a rules question. You said you told your teammate to get a third party to watch the shot (which was the right call), and your teammate chose not to do so. And whenever there is a disagreement in what happened, the nod goes to the shooter.

Situation #2: APA 8 and 9 ball rules manual, pg. 17, item j. Though describing a ball-in-hand situation, I would interpret the 'hand holding it touches another ball' bit to be relevant to this situation.

ScottW,

Situation #1 - I realize (and commented on) the fact that my teammate "dicked-around" and didn't get a third party. I also realize (and commented on) the fact that under APA rules it is the shooters call. My main question I need an answer to is about just WHO on my team has a right to stop the shooter and ask for a third party to watch the shot.

Situation #2 - This rule you mention has nothing to do with a ball other than the cueball (as in "cueball fouls"). In the rule you mention, "hand holding it " describes the hand holding the CUEBALL. In my aforementioned situation, a numbered ball was cradled by two fingers of the bridge hand to aid in making a more stable bridge to shoot a "jacked-up" shot. The cueball was never touched until the tip made contact with it upon the forward stroke of the cue stick. You know what I'm talking about here. Heck, you've probably seen it done many times by people unfamiliar to the game or to the rules of the game. I don't believe the above rule you quoted addresses this at all. In fact, I don't believe the APA has a rule to address this situation. At least I couldn't find one.
I guess I'm going to put a call in to the Division Rep and see if I can get some clarification on these matters.

Maniac

Maniac
 

mullyman

Hung Like a Gnat!
Silver Member
Maniac said:
ScottW,
Situation #2 - This rule you mention has nothing to do with a ball other than the cueball (as in "cueball fouls"). In the rule you mention, "hand holding it " describes the hand holding the CUEBALL. In my aforementioned situation, a numbered ball was cradled by two fingers of the bridge hand to aid in making a more stable bridge to shoot a "jacked-up" shot. The cueball was never touched until the tip made contact with it upon the forward stroke of the cue stick. You know what I'm talking about here. Heck, you've probably seen it done many times by people unfamiliar to the game or to the rules of the game. I don't believe the above rule you quoted addresses this at all. In fact, I don't believe the APA has a rule to address this situation. At least I couldn't find one.
I guess I'm going to put a call in to the Division Rep and see if I can get some clarification on these matters.

Maniac

Maniac

I understood what you meant about situation 2 the first time around. I hate to say it, but in my opinion, if the rules are cue ball fouls only then it's safe. Unless the rules specifically say "touched by accident." Huge gray area if it doesn't. I can't see why more people don't just move the ball out of their way and then move it back when they're done.....and wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.

Personally, she should have been smacked across the frickin' teeth for being so ignorant as to rest her hand on a ball. But alas, you get those types of rules and this is what happens. I am 100% for all ball fouls.
MULLY
 

RunoutalloverU

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
wayneward said:
I'm finishing a BCA league now. It is also poorly ran. So, I will not be playing next session. It's the league operators, not the BCA. We have a new BCA league starting called Sin City pool league with 100% payback and better players.
APA is good for bangers. "You can't get better playin bangers".

I play APA, anytime you come to southern california, send me a pm.
 
W

wayneward

Guest
Thanks

RunoutalloverU said:
I play APA, anytime you come to southern california, send me a pm.

Thanks for the offer.
 
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