Stroke and fundamentals tweaking...best drill?

EddySJ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am a decent player and have taken a lesson before(SPF style). I have recently been getting some help from a well respected and skilled player in my ABL league.
The changes he has suggested helped tremendously (when everything comes together). I am not consistent yet with those changes, so my game is up and down.

Some of the changes have been in my aim and stroke routine. Some of the items he suggested contradict what the instructor told me to do. Specifically, the pause at the backswing has been in process of being eliminated and a slightly wider foot stance than shoulder width (instep of foot to outside of shoulders).
After focusing on the pause recommended by the instructor, I began to push the cue for my shot delivery after the prescribed pause and was not getting a consistent follow through. Also, the push caused inconsistency in tip placement because I was trying to force/power the shots.

I worked on my stroke after my friend's review of high speed footage of my mistakes. I now try to have a fast (no pause) fluid practice stroke period, with visual feedback, to ensure that my stroke is in fact straight. If not straight, I get back up and change my stance (foot position and aim reinforcement). basically working on a pre-shot routine and addressing the cue ball all over again if things don't "feel" right.

Regarding my stance: My hip is getting in the way of my cue/stroke hand, and I am subconsciously correcting that by fish-tailing my arm out ever so slightly at the end of my stroke.
When I widen my stance a bit, things go well. If I go too far, I have line of sight issues and other likely unseen items of interest. I am having issues identifying how to properly address the spacing of my front foot consistently.

What is the best way to drill and correct/reinforce my adjusted fundamentals?

I have been trying a full face flat draw shot into an object ball, straight up the middle of the table to practice stance, stroke, and aim/line of sight picture. The cue ball is supposed to beat the OB back to the rail (progressive draw drill).
My results have been moderately inconsistent and I want to know if you have any suggestions for alternate drills and things to look for.

If I drill this too long, I have some discomfort in my forward shoulder. I suspect I may have a posture issues as well.

I will try to have my friend get some video of my practice drills from behind and from the side, if you need it.

Thank you for your time.

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Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Eddysj...You need to review your materials and video. Everybody pauses at the backswing...even those that think they don't. Slow motion video proves this. My personal pause is only 2/10ths of a second long, but the transition to the forward stroke is very smooth and relaxed. The exxagerated pause was for training purposes only, and you were advised to shorten it up, once you starting putting the stop in your backswing into your routine automatically. The amount of "follow-through" is immaterial, as the shot is done as soon as you strike the CB with your tip. Your personal finish is what's important (which delivers the proper amount of 'followthrough' for you...as that is an "everybody's different" statistic). As I told you, the idea is to let the cue do the work, rather than try to force the cue through the CB. Anybody who is telling you different doesn't really understand the dynamic of the pendulum stroke. If you leave the shoulder out of the stroke, and swing the cuestick from the elbow, it is a hinge and has to move forward in a straight line. That also creates a linear, nonrandom range of motion for the cue to travel in. If I were you, I'd watch your video again, as I'm certain you haven't watched it in at least a year. I teach the simple way to an accurate and repeatable stroke. Just because someone plays well doesn't insure that they know anything about how to build an accurate stroke process.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi EddySJ,

Video is always helpful so if you can get some video online and post a link to it, that would be great.

But even without video, It appears to me that your stance is your main issue. Whether you pause or not in your stroke isn't going to do you much good if you're out of alignment. The fact that you're having trouble clearing your hip and then shoulder discomfort is a clear indication to me that you're out of alignment and off-balance.

Before you try to fix your stroke, you should focus on your feet placement. You need help from someone who knows what they're doing regarding stance.

If you want to tackle stance on your own --- and I don't recommend it --- you can start with this:

Find the line of the shot (the line from the cb to the ob) and extend it off the table and on to the floor. Step on it with your back foot.

Place your front foot slightly ahead of your back foot, but NOT TOO FAR AHEAD --- no more than 1 foot ahead, preferably 1/2 foot, and stand at least shoulder width apart.

There's some tweaking involved but that's a good place to start.

If you can get your stance in alignment, you will find that your stroke issues aren't as serious as you may have thought.
 

EddySJ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you both for your replies.
I have reviewed the materials and the video.
I did however forget that I was supposed to stop exaggerating the pause after a certain period of time.

I will continue work on the foot placement ... as when my feet are placed in what I suspect is my natural "correct" spot, my stroke is very straight.
I will also review the sections on stance and compare it to what Fran stated.



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JeremiahGage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To groove in major changes to your mechanics and routine, I like using a long straight-in stop shot. This will give you great feedback on your alignment and if you are putting any accidental sidespin on the ball. Setup the shot with ball placement stickers (donuts) and shoot it for at least 15 minutes, 3 times a week. Progress to other shots and drills when you start to feel your routine become more automatic, which usually takes around 3 weeks for new habits to kick in.
 

randyg

www.randygpool.com
Silver Member
I never use a cue ball. Instead I like to use a striped ball and just roll it into the pocket. That keeps me focused on my Mechanics, not my aiming.

randyg
 

scottjen26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jeremy,

Stop up at BF sometime, or come to the next free clinic on May 13th and I can take a quick look and offer some advice.

Scott
 

EddySJ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I will try to hit BF Saturday in the a.m... thanks for the replies.
Still doing the vertical stripe drill. I was hoping to compare the video of my lesson and recent footage, to see if I can i.d. a change. I don't have access to the new video, so that has been on hold.

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Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I never use a cue ball. Instead I like to use a striped ball and just roll it into the pocket. That keeps me focused on my Mechanics, not my aiming.

randyg

Interesting concept. How many reps do you recommend doing this per practice session?
 

EddySJ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Randy,
Do you place the stripe vertically on this routine to i.d. any tip placement issues? (Unintentional english)

Also interested in your response to Sloppy Pockets...

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Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Randy,
Do you place the stripe vertically on this routine to i.d. any tip placement issues? (Unintentional english)

Also interested in your response to Sloppy Pockets...

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The drill is similar to the one Tor Lowry talks about on his free online tutorial video. Tor recommends doing it 2-3000 times over several weeks without playing any pool at all. Seems excessive to me, so I was wondering what Randy thought about it since I know he advocates shorter but intense and mindful practice sessions in general.

I think it's a great stroke builder for the reason Randy mentions, but I have never gotten past 100 or so balls before it started to get tedious. So, if I did the drill for 100 shots 3 times a day, it would take 10 days to complete 3000 shots. Tor must have the patience of Job, because he says he did the same thing again just to learn the slip stroke.

I use the stripe placed vertically and in line with the shot. Center ball hits show the ball rolling without wobble, and side spin is real easy to see. I mix it all up (something that Tor doesn't mention doing), shooting maybe 7 stripes into the center of the corner pocket, walking to that corner and shooting those balls back to the pocket you were standing at, but maybe using left spin and trying to hit the right facing, etc. You learn a lot doing that, and it keeps it from getting dull.

Here's a link to Tor's video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm-VDuGzJS4

The whole video is interesting and very helpful, but the part about this drill begins at 32:32.
 

EddySJ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Excellent video... very helpful.

Thank you for the link.

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EddySJ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mr. Lee.
I had reviewed the video, but, I recently watched several sections a bit closer.
All of your advice given at various times in the lesson is of course spot on.
I have been working on everything you mentioned...apparently just not nearly enough.

I reviewed my own footage taken of my speed drills and full face draw drills, and I noticed/reconfirmed that my stroke is fishtailing/wobbly and that my cue isn't in line where I perceive my aim to be.

I also have a habit of pausing/slowing when I am stroking the cue during my preshot routine, when establishing initial tip placement for aim, etc...
that habit seems to have carried forward during my final stroke to my stop position.
Incidentally, that is what the other gentleman pointed out to me as one of the reasons I was having trouble getting good draw action on the ball.

I think my foot placement is part of the issue with the cue alignment, as I marked my foot placement on the floor with tape when i got a good result doing the drills. I get repeat results when I place my feet on those spots and shoot the shot over.
When I performed a bad shot, or a good shot, I checked the floor...
every time I had a bad result, my feet were way off the marks. The problem with that, is that it didnt feel any different to me, so I don't know how to identify when things are awry with my stance and foot placement.

The other issue, I think, is slight inconsistency in placement of my bridge hand/back hand lengths.

I plan on doing the bottle drill a lot, and was wondering what the best way to drill for true alignment position is with regard to my feet.
I will also look to see if my chin placement varies on any of the shots in my video, to see if there is a correlation to the cue misalignment I noticed.

I understand this is likely not a quick fix...I thank you for your time and patience. I appreciate any additional feedback you choose provide.

To scottjen,
I would like to speak with you. My scedule hasn't allowed me to work that out yet.

To Fran, I will continue to look at what you suggested (why I laid out the floor templates in the first place).

Thank you all that have offered responses in this thread.
I will continue to work at it...



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